'State schools are creating amoral children'

[BurgenSnurgen]

...because state schools are under so much pressure to improve results that there's no time to teach them right from wrong.

So says Chairman of the Independent Schools Association

Bit speechless really. It's giving me the absolute RAGE.

I was brought up hearing the "narrow the gap between rich and poor" "get rid of the bourgeoisie" mantra.

wordfactory: I had barely met anoyone that wasn't WC before I went to unveristy. I had certainly never met a muslim or a jew or anyone openly gay

Sure: me neither. But not, in either case I don't think, because our parents paid good money to make sure we didn't, right? Or, more charitably, paid good money to ensure a situation which, coincidentally, resulted in us not doing so?

Which I think makes a difference.

"I had barely met anoyone that wasn't WC before I went to unveristy. I had certainly never met a muslim or a jew or anyone openly gay"

I know a lot of kids who have never met anyone working class socially- the difference is that they could well go through an extremely long and successful life never doing so!

Richard Walden had obviously been to my DCs state school.

TOSN please do to tar us all with same brush! I'm not paying to stop my children from meeting the working classes.
Or assume that all state educated children are bosum buddies with the working classes living in social housing claiming benefit, under my childhood leftie intellectual MC stone the working classes weren't exactly regular visitors only their causes were championed.

I'm just really curious to know how Walden has acquired this intimate knowledge of state schools - does he spend a lot of time in them?

I have no experience of secondary yet but at my dcs' primary schools they definitely promote a culture of kindness and caring for each other.

I suspect Walden is like most of us we all have irrational, uniformed prejudices.

"I'm just really curious to know how Walden has acquired this intimate knowledge of state schools - does he spend a lot of time in them?"

The same way that private school parents know exactly what goes on is state schools. And the way parents of 3 year olds know that state school just wouldn't work for their child...............

My particular prejudice is reserved for Farage although I suspect that if I learnt more about the man and what he stands for and assuming my blood pressure didn't rise so much that I had a stroke I would feel that same. I'd just be able to despise him from an fully informed position instead.

You see Mart having been brought up with what my DH calls "Trot hypocrites" who are ardent supporters of Amnesty International" but who don't tolerate disagreement with their views in their own circle of friends and acquaintances I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter what others think about your school, your car, your clothes, house or political views, and if they want to express those views ideally in a logical way be it too your face, on a forum like this or in any other way let them. You don't have to agree with them and maybe their experience is not your experience and in their circumstances it does apply after all if they choose to pay for education in the belief that there child is going to get a better moral compass delusional or not what harm is it actually doing you and your DC's.

HG-I won't insult your intelligence by explaining the damage that private education does to society. Fair enough to make the choice to privately educate your child- but do not pretend that it is a choice which has no impact outside your own family circle.

Mart you know I struggle to accept that educating your child privately has that much impact on society it's money or at least the having large sums of it and the determination to acquire more at any costs that I believe has the biggest impact on society. But maybe you're right and I just can't see it, perhaps some of those dreadful hypocrite tendencies I was brought up with have rubbed of on me after all.

HG- faux naïveté does not become you.

Neither does clunking irony.

Mart no "faux naïveté" I really do struggle to see that it has that much impact on society. Let's face it as were often being told we're only talking about 7% of children currently in education, MN is clearly not a representation of most UK families and how they educate their children through choice or lack of it. Or perhaps it that tiny minority in certain school which I won't bother to name because we all know which ones they are who you think are having an impact a disproportional impact on our society? But these children being at these schools comes back to my point above it's all about money not education.

nit what on earth makes you think there are no jews, muslims or opening gay DC at private school?

In fact outside major cities there are probably a higher % of Jews, openly gay and Muslims at private schools than state schools especially the big name ones.

I think TOSN might have been referring to the working classes. I don't think anyone could say that there is likely to be a higher % of them in private schools- even outside the big cities.......

Although I am curious to know why there should be a higher % of openly gay people at private schools.........

paid good money to ensure a situation which, coincidentally, resulted in us not doing so?

What, not being exposed to gay, Jewish or Muslim people?

If that's what you meant, what an extraordinarily insulting and ignorant assertion.

My children have an extremely broad cross-section of friends through both school and local sports clubs.

And I would be horrified to hear them make such sweeping judgements about other people.

The definition of moral is subjective.
For some, it is a near version of what is in the bible.
For some it is the morals of the country that they were born in.
Others have their own definition.

There seem to be a higher % of openly gay boys at DS2's school than were at DS1's school although virtually an equal number of boys. Maybe Im wrong but I doubt it's any less than found in the state sector. You are certainly not paying too avoid gays Jews or Muslims and why you'd want to is beyond me.

Well you see again my experiences differ from assumptions on this thread.

DS's school: London hothouse, very selective academically. DC who were Jewish, Muslim, Hindi, Catholic, CoE and probably a plethora of others. Nationalities were: German, French, American, Australian, Chinese, Korean, Iranian, Russian, Indian, Italian, South African, Swedish, etc., there were also a few boys who lived in social housing on scholarships.

DD's school: not for the grammar school quotient and a very mixed ability but more homogenous and has been accused of being full of rich girls who are a bit dim and from the gin and jag belt. However, they all mix together and tumble along.

DD's comp: was a school of two cities and operated a bit like apartheid. The mc girls lived in one world and the others in another. The twain simply didn't meet and it was a very strange environment indeed. Exclusively unhealthy and different groups were ridiculed and excluded in a myriad of ways.

At a recent lunch thingy we listened to a state educated child making incredibly sweeping and judgemental statements about the sort of people that went to what I only know as old Polys definitely not RG universities. He was so condescending I was frankly stunned, criticising their clothes, speech and level of intelligence. If my DS has started spouting this rubbish, Im sure plenty would have been falling over themselves to say he was a typical product of the independent school system. Instead my DS was as offended and horrified as I was, both of us felt that as it's was the hostesses much adored son it would be bad manners to comment so we quickly ate our meal and left!

steamingnit what an extraordinary assertion - that is really not why people send their children to private schools and besides your average private school is far likelier to have more Jewish children in than your average state school. Some people seem to live in imaginary worlds.