Wearing make-up and hitching up skirts is unfair on MALE TEACHERS - Y10 girls told.

[Spidermama]

DD - just about to turn 15 - tells me a special assembly was called at her school to tell Y10 girls that their attitude to school uniform is appalling and influencing the Y7. (Personally I think they all look very smart on the whole and don't see many uniform crimes apart from a very small handful of girls).

She came home hurt at being shouted at en masse in this way (there are 11 classes per year in her school so year 10 girls constituted as large group).

She says the comments were very personal. Words like 'pathetic' were used but most worryingly of all for me was the comment about how the way they're dressing is unfair on male teachers.

Am I right to feel the need to bring this up with the school?

As well as adhering to uniform requirements and basic standards of decency there is something here about having respect for themselves - underwear on show is not really attractive/showing self respect

hAIRY BOLLOCKS SWINIGING FREE IN (oops) very thin netting)
I feel ill even now.

As I keep saying. Yes, adhere to uniform policy, get bollocked if you don't.

But not because you are a girl and therefore have to take responsibility for men's behaviour or feelings. Because them's the rules and nobody particularly likes seeing people's pants.

Am howling
Reminds e of when dh was climbing out of the loft in a pair of shorts, onto my shoulders (we never had a ladder) I got an eye full of boll as he was crouching down and we were laughing so much, my legs gave way and we fell to the floor.

Generally speaking, fashion does not dictate that men show a hint of bollock.

My dh once inadvertently terrified a girl he spent a summer working on a farm with. Chatting to her in back of truck on the way from the farm, he noticed she had become v quiet then looked down to see he had a bad case of bollocus rampagus

Gents wore very short shorts in the 80s...

pmsl. I think we have completely de-railed this thread into bollock chat

All bulging and thin skinned and hairy and veiny.

Gawgeous!

Got to get my kids rom school and look teacher in the eye and not think of his bollocks now...

But fashion is currently 'dictating' or at least heavily suggesting that girls wear revealing clothing, lots of make-up and generally exhibit a pretty brassy exterior. So they do. I do pity kids-Look like this! No, don't!-being thrown at them all the time.

It's of course fine for schools and parents telling them not to do it. But perhaps we could do it with less disapproval and moral judgment, acknowledging they get very mixed messages and in some cases, no guidance from parents.

It's of course fine for schools and parents telling them not to do it. But perhaps we could do it with less disapproval and moral judgment, acknowledging they get very mixed messages and in some cases, no guidance from parents.

The above should be put in the letter to the teachers. A positive attitude seeking to find a global (parent/teacher) response and solution may be much more successful than a hostile letter.

I agree mollydoggerson

I think its a sensible rule to have for that reason. However I don't think telling the girls why the rule is in place is a good idea. I know its generally a good idea to tell children why we put rules in place, but telling them that they are being stopped from experimenting with their sexual power on the male teachers is likely to make them do it more.

as usual its the same old people making the same old tired feminist arguments - so much for feminism = equality... no wonder they get a bad name.

no one said the male teachers were lusting after these girls but as usual lets go to the extreme about this stuff and insinuate that was what was meant - even though no one knows what was really said.

Sit down, let your TV remote control wander down to the dark underbelly of available channels and watch a good few music videos and adverts on any one of the dedicated music channels. Or flick through a few teen mags in WH Smiths. Or just read the bloody Daily Mail Online-too revealing! too frumpy! Visible nipples! Flaunting her curves! Overweight! Too thin! No wonder he fell for her, look at that figure! Then there's all the porn on the internet.

And on and on. Never mind how you dress and what you do, someone will be along to judge you in a minute.

This is what kids are being inundated with. And they like it, enjoy it, copy it, see it as the thing to do, get completely confused by it, rebel against it (in varying degrees, of course). It's a minefield for the average 40-something, let alone a 14 year old.

I just think sometimes with so many conflicting attitudes and expectations out there, what children need is not to be told that they are bad and getting it wrong but just 'Here are the rules, you follow them or face punishment' and actually have the whole thing played down for once.

"Those who howl so furiously about a woman's right to do whatever the fuck she wants forget two things."

Jesus!

The rolling eyes were at moondog's comment about male teachers who live in fear of the female students.

I taught teenage boys for years and yet, somehow, never lived in fear of either sexual assault from them or an accusation of sexual assault they may make about me. That is, possibly, because I am a grown woman who is perfectly aware of the boundaries that you need to maintain when teaching. And, as a female, I am rarely viewed as a potential sexual threat.

'And, as a female, I am rarely viewed as a potential sexual threat.'
There's you answer.

So why are your male teacher friends so worried moondog? Seriously, it's not difficult to act as an adult and maintain boundaries.

Adolescents will push boundaries, it's part of the process of growing up and maturing, but there is no need for a school to pander to the myth that somehow men are vulnerable to the emergent female sexuality. The poor dears can help themselves as my male colleagues can attest. Any teacher who can't deal with a room full of hormones and teenage power plays probably should reconsider whether or not they are suited for teaching that age group.

I worked in a school where this was seen by some pupils as an easy way of disrupting lessons.

Come in to the lesson late, cleavage showing, skirts barely covering pants, as soon as the (male) teacher asked them to sort out their uniform. Calls of "you perv", "why are you looking sir?" etc. backed by their friends who had already entered the room.

It was and is a form of "terroring" teachers.

I'm just trying to imagine my female colleagues and I being rounded up and told to rein in our tits for fear of inflaming the desires of the menfolk

I totally get what Boney is saying, but there has to be another way. Ditching uniform would be a start.

Although actually the response to "why are you looking sir?" might be "because I'm your teacher and I'm tasked with enforcing the rules. The rules are that you wear uniform in the way in which it was designed"

I'm almost certainly overestimating the ease with which anyone (male or female) can talk over a teen on a mission, granted.

This really annoys me the fact is that young male teachers asking girls to adjust skirts/blouses are at risk of the "Sir are you looking?". This alone can destroy careers. As a mother of two daughters I have never felt that equality equates to being able to dress as baby prostitutes. It is a fact that teacher's careers have been destroyed by allegations so just get your child to wear the uniform.

2

JeanaiMorris - I'd like to see a female TEACHER think she can get away with going into school with her skirt so short her knickers are showing and so much cleavage on display, you can see her nipples. I should imagine she actually would get a lot of complaints from parents of boys and girls about the image she was portraying.

So, just to be clear. The majority on this thread think it's OK to tell young women to modify their dress to suit the needs/convenience of men. That it it young women's fault if a man is made uncomfortable or embarrassed by what she is wearing. Is that the consensus?