Wearing make-up and hitching up skirts is unfair on MALE TEACHERS - Y10 girls told.

[Spidermama]

DD - just about to turn 15 - tells me a special assembly was called at her school to tell Y10 girls that their attitude to school uniform is appalling and influencing the Y7. (Personally I think they all look very smart on the whole and don't see many uniform crimes apart from a very small handful of girls).

She came home hurt at being shouted at en masse in this way (there are 11 classes per year in her school so year 10 girls constituted as large group).

She says the comments were very personal. Words like 'pathetic' were used but most worryingly of all for me was the comment about how the way they're dressing is unfair on male teachers.

Am I right to feel the need to bring this up with the school?

CupofCoffee, I used to teach adolescent boys. Every now and then the "men can't stop once they get started" myth would crop up in conversation.

To which my answer would always be "So, has your mother ever walked into your room while you are having a wank?"

Silence.....

Myth never mentioned in my hearing again.

Fantastic slug!

Do you think they believe it themselves? Where do you think they get that idea from?

They were from a very conservative immigrant culture. They'd been fed rape myths since birth and it was a bit of a shock to be confronted with incontrovertible evidence that perhaps they weren't all true.

I bet it was a shock!

Those who howl so furiously about a woman's right to do whatever the fuck she wants forget two things.
1.I In a civilised society we take account of others. That means I behave very differently with a group of elderly women to the way I do with a roomful of students for example.

1. The howlers are the sort of women are most insistent on banging on about their rights to be shielded from/exposed to a set of carefully controlled and defined criteria, rights they are happy to deny to others, particularly men.

I am friends with several male teachers at secondary level and the stories he tell and the fear they live in is unbelievable.

"Those who howl so furiously about a woman's right to do whatever the fuck she wants forget two things."

What about the people who state their case calmly and rationally?

Or how about all those female teachers who manage perfectly well in the face of all that fresh faced youth and their tight trousers

We had this at the same stage when I was at school. We were shouted at and called tarts. We protested. Parents complained. Another teacher then apologised. Teacher who said it (female) lost respect of children and colleagues.

What do you mean, starfish?

disclaimer - haven't read it all.

school kids have to stick to the rules. So they are collectively bollocked for something they aren't all doing? Welcome to real life.

'pathetic' is a good word for those trying to look sexy in school uniform.
HOWEVER the whole thing has been derailed by the 'unfair on the male teachers' thing. Best phrased as 'none of us want to see your knickers, girls and boys, it is NOT a pretty sight, so skirts need to be long enough to prevent this and trousers hitched up to cover underwear'.

anyone working with kids knows that you have to protect yourself against the flirts and liars who can get you into big trouble. As the adult this means not being alone with them, not touching them and working hard to stay out of any situation where someone can cry 'sexual assault'. That is part of the responsibility of the teachers.

Did anyone say they had?

There were one or two interesting points in that Guardian article but when I read the male teacher interviewed saying he and others had no idea how to deal with the attention we suddenly received from young girls I just though 'Oh, for God's sake'.

Really, you need specialised training to tell a child to stop being so silly and behave? The two teachers in my family do not seem to be living in fear or at a loss as to what to do about it.

Agree with moondog. We take account of other people.

I think this is a massive overreaction and perhaps a misinterpretation from the OPs daughter. The girls were told about uniform - all teachers would have to remind the girls. As a female teacher I have had to tell girls that their knickers are on show as they are sat in class. Desks do not have fronts, a girl sits comfortable and from the front of the class you can get a real eyeful! It is difficult not to notice. A quiet word in the girls ear works.

I can just imagine a male teacher feeling very embarrassed having to tell a 15 year old her everything is on show - some of the responses could be to label the male teacher a perv etc.

I have also had to tell boys that their pants are on show (trousers round hips, tight pants nothing left to imagination). Have had responses like "ooh miss looking at his pants eh?" etc.

As an additional thought the 'feminist' threads on MN full of people going on about how tarty behaviour is encouraged and represses women and girls.
But God forbid that one should actually come out and say it in more specific terms to a group of females as opposed to discuss it and dissect it theoretically.

There is little doubt in my mind in any case that in general young girls act and dress in a much more provocative manner than they used to even 20 or 30 years ago.

If a male teacher/student was running up and down the stairs in shorts and no underwear with his ball bags flopping around the place, would he be responsible for making others feel uncomfortable?

We all have a duty to dress appropriately in certain circumstances. Parents should support the school and implement the codes of conduct, or if the parents disagree with the school code of conduct, find another school for your child.

Where is everyone getting this idea that the school were suggesting the girls are responsible for causing the male teachers to lust after them? A big leap from feeling uncomfortable to lusting.

If parents and their child want the freedom to present themselves at school nude/clothing of their choice then they should find a school that meets this requirement.

My brother is a teacher. I know he certainly finds it awkward telling a 15 year old her cleavage is too on show, skirt too short etc. Not because he is in any way attracted by it, but because there is always going to be someone who could say "well why was he looking, the perv". Maybe that's what the implication was?

I complained in the gym about a bloke who did too many wide leg stretches in short shorts. God, it was so repulsive.

pmsl moondog. wide leg stretches..