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Secondary education

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Original poster

bursaries... would this piss you off?

144 replies

Gef · 22/04/2012 16:10

One of the mums at DD's school, her daughter has a big bursary, I think they pay 20%.

but... mum drives a newish car, always wears labels (north face coat etc), and now daughter is probably going on a school trip to Australia
(cost £3000), which my DD won't be going on, because we can't afford it what with the FULL FEES we struggle to pay...

Go on, MN, crucify me, I know I am going to be told it is none of my business, and maybe it isn't, but I think they must have fiddled the figures when they applied for the bursary because they seem to have a lot of disposable income.

OP posts:
LadySybilDeChocolate · 22/04/2012 16:12

If you need one, why don't you apply?

startail · 22/04/2012 16:19

Never try and work out other people's finances, that way madness lies.

I have DF with DC in private education and I cannot work out how they do it.

Kez100 · 22/04/2012 16:27

Surely the school have procedures to audit claims. On a risk basis, things like that would stand out.

It maybe her parents have bought her a new car for her 40th because she is such a wonderful daughter and have paid for their only grand-daughter to go to Austrailia for her 15th because they are so proud of her achievements? (dates made up of course)

Would any of this sort of thing make a difference to a bursary?

Also, I guess you cannot be absolutely sure they get such a high bursary?

CecilyP · 22/04/2012 16:38

I don't suppose there is anything you can do about it. Unless the school as a phone number where you can report her anonymously, as with benefit fraud.

EdithWeston · 22/04/2012 16:41

How do you know the level of bursary? Aren't they normally confidential?

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 22/04/2012 16:41

Maybe her grandparents are paying for the school trip...... maybe the car is bought over years and years with a loan....

Maybe they know their way round the system and have legitimately exploited a loop hole...

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 22/04/2012 16:42

Their bursary will be based on their income. They coud have a fairly modest income, with a car on finance and a few thousand each on credit cards or loans.

Original poster
Gef · 22/04/2012 16:46

She has told me the level of bursary.

We can't get a bursary, reasonable income (on paper) nowt left with outgoings.

If ONLY our fees were 20%, my god..

OP posts:
PurplePidjin · 22/04/2012 16:50

Bursary or scholarship?

Designer clothes also get sent to the charity shop.

Maybe a relative works in car sales and they got a good deal.

And there might be a fund to help those on lower incomes have the same opportunities.

Or a relative died and they've been left enough for a few luxuries...

bronze · 22/04/2012 17:03

We have a big bursary. We also have a new looking nice car. It belongs to my pil.

sue52 · 22/04/2012 22:53

I can understand your pissed offishness however, you don't know the parents income. From what I understand all bursaries are only offered after a full inspection of the parents finances.

Peppin · 23/04/2012 08:38

I have looked into bursaries at public schools and found that they all require means testing on an annual basis to ensure the award is still needed. In practical terms I imagine this involves the parents producing evidence of their income, so it might be possible to receive, say, an inheritance and still keep the bursary.

Equally, lots of families who struggle with fees do have grandparents who contribute for school trips and so on, as others have suggested.

It is so tempting to draw conclusions and judge others on the basis of appearances, but ultimately doesn't get you any further with your own school fees issues! I don't think calling the school anonymously as someone else has suggested would be particularly wise (bad karma?) but perhaps you could enquire directly what the criteria for a bursary award are? Then it might become clearer how this family qualifies.

EdithWeston · 23/04/2012 08:58

The car could be a company car, and the "probably" going on the trip might be a face-saver for a straight no?

Interfere at your peril.

But if you feel the school has acted wrongly in making the award then your choices are either to raise the issue with the bursar (though of course as the school will treat this as confidential, you may never hear the upshot) or, if you do not trust the school to act with integrity (because of the award, and/or because you do not trust the remedy procedures), to start looking for a different school where your DCs will not be under the influence of a corrupt institution. You can make it plain in your notice to quit letter why you are removing them. Loss of paying pupils tends to make a school pay attention.

gramercy · 23/04/2012 10:16

Many people's lifestyle is not financed through working income. It's not fair, but whadda ya do?

I know someone who has dcs at private school on bursaries. They live in a lovely grace and favour house (so free rent with job) and do not earn much. The grandparents however own a house in Cornwall, take them on holiday skiing and to America, and have bought them a new BMW 4-wheel drive thing. It sticks in the throat because our lifestyle is a hundred times worse than theirs but there would be no chance of a bursary for us.

Furthermore I read that one third of school fees are paid by grandparents. So lots of people are not dipping into their own pockets at all for private education.

Kez100 · 23/04/2012 10:44

So, how does this work then?

Say, my son was able but not genius. Lets say, grammar school ability.

Say, our income is £20,000 and we rent a home, no savings and have a naff car.

So, what happens if I want him to go to a private school? He has to pass an entrance test and then we apply for a bursary and we get a large one because our income is so small?

Or do bursaries only go to those passing special tests for the 'uber-clever'?

Or are they only given to x number of children a year?

There must be something which stops all reasonably clever children of poor people from all applying (apart from parents not being interested in priavte education and all the supplementary costs of it).

EdithWeston · 23/04/2012 10:54

Kez100: it depends entirely on the school. Some are linked to scholarships, some are not. All have different ways of assessing income (some might expect you to realise assets, some don't) and have different thresholds for assistance, and different sized bursary pots (which makes a difference to the numbers which can be assisted and the levelof assistance they can offer). It may also dependon how many others already in the school are already on bursaries, or if any existing pupils' families have suffered a financial reversal and have also applied (existing pupils often get first call, especially if in an important transfer or exam year).

If there is a specific school you are interested in, you need to ring up and ask.

bronze · 23/04/2012 10:55

Scholarships are ability based
Bursaries are judged on finances

Passing a test to go to the school depends on that school

Kez100 · 23/04/2012 11:37

I'm not interested for my children, just trying to work out how the private schools survive. Well, I know that, they obviously survive because most parents pay a good proportion of the fees but I wonder how the schools know that they are going to be able to afford to take a set of children.

Is it in the schools power to say, after the test has been sat, no we cannot give you a bursary - you are poor, we agree you are poor, but there is no money in the kitty to give you the maximum bursary you need.

Or, do they look at the bursary situation before the tests are sat and intake chosen, so only children that pay or that they can give the right bursary for get a place?

bronze · 23/04/2012 11:44

Is it in the schools power to say, after the test has been sat, no we cannot give you a bursary - you are poor, we agree you are poor, but there is no money in the kitty to give you the maximum bursary you need.
Not all schools have a test. you can apply for a bursary and they may not offer one, they may offer a percentage. Bursaries are rarely full fees.

SoupDragon · 23/04/2012 11:48

DSs school has a set "pot" of money for bursaries and a set pot of money for scholarships. If more boys want bursaries than there is money, they won't all get them. I have no idea how they choose.

bronze · 23/04/2012 11:52

I think there is a heriarchy.
Existing pupils

Children with scholarships

I'm not sure what else though

Kez100 · 23/04/2012 11:54

Thanks. Thats how they control it then. It is completely up to the school if they give a bursary and how much. It's not something you are absolutely entitled to because you have a small income.

MrsCampbellBlack · 23/04/2012 11:54

Many schools do look at assets when awarding bursaries not just income.

Perhaps the trip will be funded in part by the bursary too?

But as others have said its just not your business.

O2BNormal · 23/04/2012 11:56

IME experience people who appear outwardly well-off are usually up to their eyes in debt, people who are genuinely well-off (apart from the super wealthy) don't feel the need to prove it with flash cars and designer clothes.

That said, it's very easy for the self-employed and people who run their own companies to have a very low income on paper, which I imagine would help when applying for bursaries.

Either way, it's not healthy for you to worry about it.

icancount · 23/04/2012 11:59

SOme bursaries apply for school trips and music lessons too. So child paying 20% fees, will only pay 20% of trip, and 20% of music lessons.
One bursar said to me that they are not expecting bursary families to be on the bread line, but to show that they have made sacrifices and work hard in their chosen professions.
You will never really know what goes on.