bursaries... would this piss you off?

[Gef]

One of the mums at DD's school, her daughter has a big bursary, I think they pay 20%.

but... mum drives a newish car, always wears labels (north face coat etc), and now daughter is probably going on a school trip to Australia
(cost £3000), which my DD won't be going on, because we can't afford it what with the FULL FEES we struggle to pay...

Go on, MN, crucify me, I know I am going to be told it is none of my business, and maybe it isn't, but I think they must have fiddled the figures when they applied for the bursary because they seem to have a lot of disposable income.

HTD, you tease!

SAHM argument is not valid. I cannot work because of the ridiculously lengthy school holidays. I don't know any employer that would give meals that time off.

In my now extensive experience of bursaries you can be a SAHM at prep school level or if you have other children of this age. Most senior schools expect you to work at least part time (although the current high levels of unemployment may mean this has changed) and also they will look sympathetically on those caring for the elderly/disabled etc.
"90% bursary given to my friend and her dp for their only child's place at a terribly well known and expensive public school. One of the parents is a sahp. So how does that work then?"
Yes they probably do "want the child" just like they want my DS is this a crime these top schools are selective often super selective he was offered a place and the we applied for the bursary.
ragged I'm unsure as to whether your querying a bursary of 90% in my DS's school scholarships carry no financial rewards and bursaries of 100% are given to non scholars we're talking £33 000 although I appreciate this is very unusual.

Well then, HeartsTrumpDiamonds, what floats your boat when it comes to applicants?

Does clever but ok financially dc trump average but broke dc? What about v posh broke family who live in crumbling old house? Are they more attractive than family in suburban semi?

Like I said, genuinely surprising.

Re bursaries :
I think they should look at sacrifices made by the family, and whether the child would benefit from the opportunities and experiences available at their school.
A family may work in relatively poorly paid jobs, and a part-time 2nd income may work out better than a full-time job paying childcare for two or three children.
I would expect the family to live in a 3 bed semi type of house, and show how they budget and control finances. I would allow a few 'nice' things if they can show they've been saved-up for.

I was a sahm when dss got a bursary at his (very well known) secondary.

we also (as per my previous post) had just bought a new car, and were having extensive building works done to our house.

dh is (and was then) a City worker, so not under any particular salary threshold that might be applied, and we still (according to the school) fulfilled any requirements for a bursary (nowhere near 90%, sadly, but substantial enough).

we filled in the forms, hid nothing, and were happy to answer questions as to why we could not, at that point, afford the fees (ie where the money was going).

There will always be bursary cheats just as there are benefit cheats and tax evaders. Best not to worry too much about it.

I can imagine few things more grim for a kid than being the poor kid in a a very, very expensive school surrounded by wealthy kids.

Quite what that will do for a child's self esteem long term I don't know. I suppose if they board you don't need to worry about playing together after school and visiting for tea

You don't have a very good imagination then.

veryworried - why does it matter if one of the parents is a SAHP? Income is what it is, the schools are private organisations and can distribute their funding as they wish.

being the poor child in school was fine for me.

I really was the poorest one there, by a very long way, and it was never really a factor.

there were a few comments occasionally, but they were from bitchy girls who would have found something else to comment on if that reason was absent.

what I gained from attending that school far outweighed those few comments, believe me.

Soupdragon, no?

How about direct experience from two very close friends whose lives were pretty much ruined by being poor tiny fish in a shark infested wealthy pond?

I always find Mollies argument about being poor in private school quite odd. There will be poor DC in state schools. Someone will be the poorest. Are their lives ruined?

Gef - really what makes you think you are in a position to know about the household income of this family?

The trip may have been paid for by a relative. The bursary will have been awarded on household income. Unless you are privvy to someone's bank accounts you know nothing.

Sorry thirdhill

Gramercy - Does clever but ok financially dc trump average but broke dc? What about v posh broke family who live in crumbling old house? Are they more attractive than family in suburban semi?

You raise the bursary dilemma...! Our bursary decisions are all made by our Board of Governors (not me) after pretty lengthy and intensive information gathering and investigations (me) including a home visit. The Headmistress is also heavily involved in the decision. I would say that it is mostly to do with "fit" with the school and whether we think the child will thrive here. We are not academically selective , for example, and some children would do better in a more academic environment.

There is no point giving a bursary to a child who is not going to fit in, work hard or who is not going to be supported at home (of course this does not apply to MN families!) Income or lack thereof is the most important "hard" criteria (based on tax returns and payslips - hard evidence) but we do also consider the full financial picture including assets. However, unlike some schools, we do not expect parents to sell or re-mortgage the family home to pay for their children's education. We would however expect them to cash in investments and even ISA's etc.

OP I am rather shocked at the mum in your case broadcasting her details to the world! Apart from anything else, that contravenes the bursary agreement we have parents sign, which has a strict confidentiality clause.

I think an ability to sew labels on should be a criteria

Seriously, Mollie, If there are few more grim things you can imagine you have a very sheltered life.

"I can imagine few things more grim for a kid than being the poor kid in a a very, very expensive school surrounded by wealthy kids.'
I've watching this thread with interest although resisting the urge to post! How you get on in a school depends on the school itself. I believe that at the super selective there is more of an intellectual snobbery than a financial one. It is those at the "bottom" of the academic pile who may feel like "tiny fish in a shark infested" academic "pond". I suspect that it is at the less selctive big name schools that social snobbery particularly related to wealth is more likely to exist.

I'm surprised that many feel the poor child at the posh school is made to feel it. The DD of a friend who was a SM on benefits or in very lowly paid for much of her daughter's childhood, was awarded a govt. assisted place (under the old scheme) at a famous, and expensive, girls' school. There were bitchy girls, of course, who told her she was ugly, had a big mouth etc etc as such girls will, but none ever sneered at her being poor. When the assisted place finished she got a school bursary from an even more famous co-ed boarding school where she had a great time in the 6th form

We were always towards the bottom end of the income spectrum in any school we were in - as others have said, there are lots of reasons people will tease/pick on you in any school, state or private, posh or not. Money, or lack of it, was never one in any school my 2 DBs or I were in, nor in my DCs' school (primary). I am sure there are nasty snobby schools where it is a divisive thing, but there are plenty where it isn't, and that is one of my filters for looking for a school for my DC - whether we need financial assistance or not is irrelevant - I would not want my DC in an atmosphere where people are judged on their parents wealth (or lack of it).

Being the poor kid in a "posh" school, is, IMHO, a lot better than being the bright geeky kid in a school with no culture of achievement and success, whether state or private, posh or not.

Bursaries are and should be highly confidential. Someone will always be unhappy otherwise.

Being the poor kid in a "posh" school, is, IMHO, a lot better than being the bright geeky kid in a school with no culture of achievement and success, whether state or private, posh or not.

Yes. I was that child in a fairly dreadful comprehensive. My parents could have afforded private without it impacting hugely on their finances, but they didn't 'believe' in private school. I find the older I get the more resentful I am of their choice.

didofido the problem is that in this day and age wealth is so much more conspicuous than it was when I was at school. Jaw dropingly expensive lap tops, designer clothes and Rolex watches I'm afraid do pervade many independent schools

Why don't you send your children to a state school where it's free to everyone?

Ah LittleFrieda you are in danger of launching another independent ed. versus state argument. This is frequently battled out on MN both sides, believe they are right despite each putting forward coherent and well thought out points and there is little backing down on either side.