Is it getting impossible for Scottish kids to get into Scottish uni's

[dumdededdumdum]

Please tell me it isn't so. Hearing Strathclyde business school is 5A's in first sitting these days. What are your experiences? Don't know what to advise my child for their choices as the entry requirements seem so high.

Even if they get that there's no guarantee they'll get in. (Unless you meet one of the access criteria ie refugee, care leaver, most deprived postcode etc).

But a lot of the widening participation criteria specifies a Scottish postcode

Lots of courses need 5As

Also at St Andrews they're quite strict with GCSE grades more so than Oxbridge

Presumably these are just tough entry criteria though right? It’s no harder for Scottish kids to get into Scottish unis than anyone else? It’s just competitive, so if they get the grades, they get in?

There is a cap on the number of Scottish students on each course so potentially it is harder.

Well it's economics, the uni gets about £2k a year for a Scottish student, about £12k a year for rUK and £20k plus for an international student. Scotgov also caps the number of places as they are funding the fees. The uni's have also been given quotas for certain types of students, widening participation etc.

Therefore it's potentially more difficult to get a place as you need to meet the entry criteria and get one of the available places for a Scottish student. There is no option to get a rUK space and pay the extra fees either.

Edinburgh uni is one of the few who publish their offer data, split between the different categories. It's worth having a look if they are on your radar to assess the liklihood of an offer.

Thinking of my 3 plus my 3 nieces and nephews, all got Scottish uni places and only one had 5As from S5. I haven't heard of any of their friends who wanted to go to uni not find a spot either (some taking an HND route to get their top choice if there grades were too low in S5).

My DDs school was good at managing expectations showing them admissions statistics so my DD knew she had an 11% chance of StA offer (she didn't get) and a 20% chance of Edinburgh (she got). This was helpful as she wasn't too invested in a particular uni or a particular course.

It’s the law of unintended consequences.

A load of Scottish MPs voted for English and Welsh students to have to pay higher fees for university. Which they thought that they could do with no consequence as Scottish students were not affected.

Except it made Scottish students look unattractive to universities in comparison to English and Welsh ones.

So now we end up with a load of Scottish students either having to accept a lower tier university than they would get into on merit or having to pay fees to go to an English or Welsh university.

@Mumofteenandtween 👏

@Mumofteenandtween** 🎯. Feels like the kids are to suffer a load of "unintended consequences" with the SNP tinkering. Boxed in with less options than non Scottish people and are now second tier in their hope to get into Scottish educational establishments. Added to this - the new appeals process that seems is designed to lower the attainment of the Scottish kids again. I mean is the appeal process change purely to reduce the workload of teachers and markers? What's the ideology behind that? They wonder why the kids are so stressed but all they're hearing is less places for you. Get 8As if you want in. Seems very harsh.

I think I’m right in saying that Edinburgh uni publish the stats on how many places they give, the number of applicants, and split thus into Scottish, rUK and overseas students, but the omit the vital data which is what proportion of the Scottish kids awarded a place have contextual offers, I.e. come from a more deprived postcode.

in some years for some popular courses ALL Scottish places went to those applicants from an extremely deprived area / care leavers, refuges etc, so the applications from your average Scottish student would have been binned without reading, and this information was only got out of the uni via a freedom of information request.

I have nothing against contextual offers, I’d just appreciate some transparency from the universities on this.

Having worked in university finance the very best thing the government could do for scottish students is to bin the free tuition fees policy, then our student’s achievements would be assessed on a level playing field with rUK students - and use that money instead to target those most in need.

Where did you hear SBS requure 5As? Standard entry requirements on their website is AAAA/AAABB for accountancy (where they are #2 in the Uk). They used to be known for looking beyond the grades (or at least contextualising and reading the personal statement).

Friend contacted them and told last year you wouldn't have got in without 5A's from fifth year. This is why I concerned about what to advise to put on the five ucas options. I thought it was one stretch, one fall back and three likely to get into courses.
Now I'm like bloody hell where will you get in with less than perfect results. Admittedly my child is wanting Edinburgh or Glasgow which in the old days would've been achievable.

It was rather predictable though, wasn’t it? What did they think would happen when universities have become businesses and some customers can pay more than others for limited places?

This just shows the poor quality of analysis we have from leaders!

I'm rather pissed off that all the widening participation taster days / weeks etc at Glasgow University seem to be for Glasgow City Council residents, even though WP applicants could come from all over Scotland. DD would really benefit from these opportunities rather than just having her grades to show.

DD doesn't meet the WP criteria for Glasgow, but seemingly does for Strathclyde. She'll be applying next year for 2025 entry.

DD has just started at uni (Stirling) and there were a few incidences of this in her cohort. Business school at Strathclyde is very popular because it's one of the best, lots of applications, two kids with identical grades in her year, one got in one didn't. Probably because they had filled their quota of kids from leafy suburbs.

There are so many things going on - when I applied to the business school at Strathclyde in 1990 the entry requirements were BBBB at Higher. No way you'd even get a conditional on that now. So many more children going on to university than there were 30 years ago, there are about 12 at Stirling from daughter's school alone, in my (very large) Edinburgh comp there were about 12 of us going to uni in total! Universities get less than £2k per student for Scottish students and four times that for overseas and English students, of course they want more of the higher fee payers.

And then there is the whole "widening achievement" thing where if you are from a super-deprived area you get a place much more easily. Would be interesting to see the drop-out rate from these places, kids who have no parental moral/financial support, who are having to work all the hours to fund their accommodation and food, and who struggle to keep up with the work.

All a bit of a mess. I think keeping university free has been a huge mistake. Not that the SNP are going to admit it. And that's before we even start on the shitshow which is student accommodation, or lack of.

I don't know about that but doesn't seem right. Again might be down to who pays for digs etc? And please don't think I'm criticising widening participation- I'm criticising the lack of transparency and seemingly dramatic and fast reduction in places for Scottish kids.

@Stroopwaffels don't kid yourself that the kids in deprived areas have no support.

I know a kid living in an ex-council house, classed as a deprived area getting plenty parental support from both parents currently at Strathclyde.
Yet a kid who was the child of a widow couldn't get in as they weren't in a deprived postcode.

The whole thing is a crock of shit.

Or conversely, as we have said on here before, a very deprived/low income/low aspiration family who are living in a large, rural postcode where everyone else is affluent would fall outwith the criteria too.

Agree that it is a crock of shit.

DD got AAAAB in her Highers and got unconditionals from Glasgow, Strathclyde and Stirling BUT she had applied for Primary Teaching, so the intake is exclusively Scottish. (Female, white and middle class Scottish which is another debate). Kids from other parts of the UK or overseas have no interest in training to be a primary school teacher, qualified only to work in Scotland.

there are hardly any free places at the scottish universities. the unis are in the position of needing funding and they get more funding from students who have to pay for their courses eg english and foreign!! it is like trying to book a free child place on a holiday. If that one free place has been taken then tough! nothing left! I also do not think all courses have a free place. Too many foreign students doing medicine and they mostly return to their home countries when all training is finished but if there were more scottish students allowed to do medicine then the NHS might eventually have enough doctors to get nhs out of the shit they are in regarding staff shortages

Agree with all the comments on here today. Crock of shit is the right phrase. How are we shoring up Scotland for the future? Widening participation students will probably find it much harder to finish their degree and that's precisely why talent need the support. I should know as I probably did fall into that category- it's hard to work full time and get a degree when home is difficult.

Why are we making our educational a tourist service industry for foreign wealth so our kids can just sell them coffee? Dramatic I know, but in a few years if this keeps up, kids will get the message that they have to go south.

The lure of 'free' University for kids is also one of the things that keeps many higher earners in Scotland.

@Sugarfree23 very true, heard that only last night from very mobile talent when I was going on about this.