Is it getting impossible for Scottish kids to get into Scottish uni's

[dumdededdumdum]

Please tell me it isn't so. Hearing Strathclyde business school is 5A's in first sitting these days. What are your experiences? Don't know what to advise my child for their choices as the entry requirements seem so high.

It's those people (especially the overseas kids) who are funding the local students . 2K (about £167 a month) a year barely covers the cost of buildings maintenance, let alone the teaching bit. Not to mention all the auxiliary services and handholding (pastoral care) expected at UK universities.
Not sure if the government gives universities any other funding.

Free university and 'everyone' having a FT university degree are conflicting goals. Countries like Germany with free education may accept a higher number of students but the dropout rate is at least double that of UK universities.

My son got 5As in S5 (4 Highers and one Advanced Higher- all Band 1s). He’s applying for a science subject and it’s just ridiculous that we have to think about whether he will get an offer from a uni that he would want to go to.

This is what is concerning me. My son is on track to do very well in his highers but I'm encouraging him to look at unis in England as well as Scotland. He wouldn't qualify for any Widening Access programmes and there seems to be so much pressure on Scottish funded places.
Yes, he would have to pay for 3 years of tuition but there is no up front cost and he would only repay the cost of fees once he is in a job.

I get that but none of it changes the fact we need to educate our own next generation of professionals or we’ll be humped. It’s so short sighted to offer so many places to people who will fuck off back to their home countries once they’ve completed their degrees. It’s a shambles the SNP have broken the system

My elder Scottish son studied law in England and we justified the extra cost by him being in employment a year earlier than had he attended a Scottish uni.

He now cannot qualify as a solicitor in Scotland as he is not qualified in Scots law, however he is very happy working for a law firm in London.

He can do a conversion course if he wants, I know some people who’ve done it the other way (Scotland - England). Of course it’s not always necessary (a) he might not want to come back if he’s doing great in London - unlikely to get the same ££££ here! and (b) depending on the role/specialism you might not even need to if you come back here

And it looks like this policy will lead to a brain drain of some of Scotland's brightest students too. So sad and shortsighted. (And in common with many other SNP policies...)

The issue my boy has with trying to apply to England is he’s only doing 2 AHs (none of the other subjects he did fitted into the columns for him to take 3). 2 crash highers as well but it’s not 3 AHs

That's interesting and something to be aware of @TooOldForThisNonsense

Yes, you're right about the brain drain; he's a very bright lad.

A straight A student and studied at Oxford (graduated 2022). His ambition was to work in International Human Rights law which he has achieved and he's currently in Zambia with work 😊. I doubt he'll ever return professionally to Scotland.

Yes. I think he’s found some that would take 2 AHs but probably not places it’s worth getting into £30k plus debt to go to 😂

@TooOldForThisNonsense

I think your son should be ok. Most English admissions look at Scottish students on a case by case basis. They may stipulate that the crash highers must be an A grade to make up for the lack of an extra advanced higher. Best to contact individual admissions departments now and pose this question as they all vary.

Thank you. I’ll get him to look. All the ones he’d looked at thus far were needing 3 AHs

@TooOldForThisNonsense
It's definitely worth asking.

Even Oxford are flexible (for law).

This is from their website:

Advanced Highers:
AAB or AA with an additional Higher at grade A

It's the criteria that needs to be looked at. Having lost a parent, however sad and disadvantaged that may make a child it doesn't equate to 'deprived'. The post code approach is ridiculous. Needs to be a case by case approach with widened criteria which may include coping with bereavement, parental illness etc, similar to nurture needs or ACES. I feel quite bitter about it all personally but I can see its not the fault of people living in ex council owned homes!

Too many foreign students doing medicine and they mostly return to their home countries when all training is finished but if there were more scottish students allowed to do medicine then the NHS might eventually have enough doctors to get nhs out of the shit they are in regarding staff shortages.

Scottish students are allowed to go to uni anywhere in the country you know. They just have to pay for it like the rest of the UK.

You can't have it all your own way.

I'm English educated and living in Scotland so this is all interesting to me as I have young DC. I also did an English law degree so didn't look at any of the Scottish universities...

I would say that my parents strongly discouraged me from studying in London due to cost, both for u/g and the compulsory p/g course, although I did end up working in London, so London being too much £££ isn't new to me as a concept.

There are also plenty of students with "perfect" grades not getting into their chosen English and Welsh courses (Law, Medicine, Computer Science, etc) and not just at Oxford/ Cambridge.

The other oddity from an English perspective is that all the RG unis are very new compared with the Scottish Ancients, so it's a pretty alien picture.

I suspect that our DC might get a postcode based WP despite both parents having degrees, but that might well have been the case in England as we've pretty well always been best house in cheap street rather than cheap flat in posh street.

You can apply to Oxford with Highers and 2 or more AHs.

Highers and Advanced Highers

We welcome the valuable skills developed by students studying within the Curriculum for Excellence and would usually expect AAAAB or AAAAA in Scottish Highers, supplemented by two or more Advanced Highers.

Conditional offers will usually be for AAB if a student is able to take three Advanced Highers; where this is not possible then a student would be expected to achieve AA in two Advanced Highers, as well as an A grade in an additional Higher course taken in Year 6.

You need to look at courses and contact admissions departments.

Just to correct that WP is only looking at Postcode. All Unis will have their own approach to contextual admissions, but at Edinburgh it is certainly broader than post code and very much case by case - certain things might give you a 'flag' - which may include your postcode - and what that flag means can very much vary in terms of entry requirements and additional support, both financial and pastoral. It is an attempt to level the playing field and it may not be perfect, but it is better than refusing to acknowledge the huge disparity of opportunity for our young people.

I have skin in the game as I have 2 children and both managed to get into their first choice of Scottish University. One chose a very niche course only on offer at 2 Universities, one chose a vocational course. One thing both my girls were aware of was taking a qualification that would enable them to earn a living - University wasn't a grand finishing school experience for them, so the focus was on the course not prestige or going further away to broaden their mind or whatever a previous poster suggested Scottish youngsters were missing out on. The whole of the rUK is still available to affluent Scottish young people, but if you need to ca canny you can take advantage of gaining academic and or professional qualifications without starting your career in debt. Yes, international and rUK students subsidise our youngsters and I have no problem with that. Charging our children to become the doctors, nurses, teachers, engineers, technicians etc etc of our future society is insane.

Although my son has perfect grades and I am concerned, I do know that lots of kids in our town (which is well-heeled and has a ‘high achieving’ state school) have gone to Scottish universities. Some of the brightest got unconditional offers and there are always kids who get into law, medicine etc.
I think that one thing that isn’t considered is how young some Scottish kids are when they leave school. I feel that 17 is quite young to be moving away, I would prefer the option to pay fees in Scotland in order that my son can be relatively close to home.
Regarding Oxford and Cambridge, Scottish kids are less like to get in than any other part of the UK. They tend not
to perform as well in the entrance exams. We visited York for an open day and my son was told that he would probably get an unconditional with 5As for the science course he is interested in. I don’t necessarily think it’s that hard to get into an English uni without Adv. Highers. Law, medicine etc. obviously are an exception.

I feel that 17 is quite young to be moving away, I would prefer the option to pay fees in Scotland in order that my son can be relatively close to home.

The majority of Scottish degrees are 4 years with a more broad and general first year to reflect the fact our children leave school earlier. Whether that is too young to move away is a personal decision, but there is always the option of a local College for a transition year - because of course, many Scots children will not be living near enough to a University to be able to commute in any case.

i think it’s terrible that kids don’t get a chance to stay at home and study at their local university if they want to. They shouldn’t be forced to move away, racking up unnecessary costs. But when say you live in Edinburgh and you don’t meet widening participation criteria chances are slim even with 5 As.

and there aren’t many college courses appropriate for the academically gifted.

How many Scottish students go to uni after S5? At DC’s (state) school, they all stayed on for S6 to study AHs and additional Highers.

A fair amount will still be 17 even after 6th year. DSs girlfriend didn't turn 18 until the Feb in 1st year.

But many children don't get the chance to stay at home because there are no Universities near them - we have a large rural and geographically dispersed population. If you live in Edinburgh or Glasgow you have a rich choice of Universities and Colleges.

Even staying on for 6th year, may Scots students will at least start their first year when they are 17 and turn 18 in year. Whether they would benefit from waiting until they are a year older is an entirely personal choice available to all students.