Is it getting impossible for Scottish kids to get into Scottish uni's

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Please tell me it isn't so. Hearing Strathclyde business school is 5A's in first sitting these days. What are your experiences? Don't know what to advise my child for their choices as the entry requirements seem so high.

Most Jan and Feb born are deferred, and you can now defer any child that is still 4 on the day they are due to start P1, so anyone going at 17 and a half will be vanishingly rare. Students looking to study medicine have to be 18 by October of the first year.

I think this cohort have also suffered a lot with covid. They've not spread their wings as much as they might have. Again, culturally it's been usual to study undergrad in Scotland. There just isn't the knowledge of what the English system offers or will need for entry requirement.

My DS who went to St Andrews wasn't 18 until Christmas even though he stayed for S6, it's not that uncommon even now.

But that’s not the same as going at 17 after Highers. A handful of DC’s cohort were still 17 but turned 18 within the first few weeks.

While the right to defer any child who is 4 on the 1st day of P1 exists now, it is a relatively new policy. It will take quite a while before these kids are of an age to apply to university. I know several kids who have left this year at the end of 5th year for Scottish unis. It feels as if there are a group who want to get out there and get on with it rather than doing 6th year.

DD is february born so would not turn 18 until half way through her university 1st year. It has not held her back academically - she got better grades than one of her friends who was born 1st March the year before (similar family set up and support). So I am not worried about her ability to cope with the course work, but age wise, and maturity wise, I would not want her moving away and would prefer her to look at local universities.

For those interested in number of Scottish students in comparison with others I found this

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/lauren_gilmour_2

Lauren has emailed most Scottish uni's asking how many Scottish fee paying places they have taken

I left after s5 when I was 17. It was OK academically but I was quite immature for my age so not great socially. I stayed at home. My son knows a few people who left after s5 but not many. He could have easily got into likes of GCU, UWS etc if he’d wanted to do that. I was quite keen for him to do s6 socially, extra curricularly etc but academically he’s fed up. I don’t think having got his 5 As under his belt he can really be arsed. I suppose if/when he starts getting offers in he’ll be a bit more focussed

@Stooriehoose thank you. do you know if the gov cap numbers are published anywhere or would that have to be a FOI request?

https://www.parliament.scot/get-involved/petitions/view-petitions/pe2009-ensure-fair-access-to-scottish-universities-for-all-residents-in-scotland-and-the-uk

Lots of useful figures here in the petition responses (notably F from the Commission for Fair Access and G from Universities Scotland).

"I do not find evidence that a “large swathe of the Scottish population” has been “shut out of higher education”, or that the current funding arrangements have led to many Scottish domiciled students having to pursue higher education, at personal financial cost, elsewhere in the UK. It is most unfortunate when applicants are unable to secure a place on a course at an institution of their choosing: it is important to acknowledge that for many years in many courses in many institutions, some applicants have been unable to realise their preferences. In promoting fair access to higher education, I am mindful of supply and demand, and will make recommendations where I consider the current system falls short of what is optimal. "

It’s not only Jan &. Feb birthdays who are 17 on school leaving. All the kids with October - November birthdays are 17 when they finish school.

My son has just started at Edinburgh Uni. Funnily enough, the majority of students on his course are still 17. It's a small intake of around 15.

He went out last night with only two other people, as out of his immediate friendship group, only the three of them had turned 18.

I’m not overly concerned about my 17 year old moving away to a Scottish uni where there are lots of kids in the same boat. My concern is more around if he ends up at an English uni where all the students are a bit older. I have a friend whose daughter had to have a chaperone for the whole of freshers week at an English university!
Taking a year out seems like the solution but if they are too young for uni, they are too young for lots of gap year options too.

We tried to defer my December born son. While it would have been theoretically possible the council refused to offer him a nursery place so we had little choice but to put him into school when he was 4. And now he will leave school at 17 and 5 months. It’s rubbish. Wish we’d just paid to keep him in private nursery.

I live in Scotland, and attend a Scottish university as a mature student. One of my dc attends another Scottish university. Both have a mix of home / rUK / international students (I’d say my course has a higher than average number of US students). Neither me nor ds had the type of grades you’re quoting (he gained entry via a HNC, I took an access course). We do have a deprived postcode though, so I don’t know.

so we had little choice but to put him into school when he was 4. And now he will leave school at 17 and 5 months. It’s rubbish.

Yes @Eightytwenty it's not just starting school young that's the issue, it's being young for move to high school, sitting exams and going to Uni.
This is the reason for years now most private schools have advocated deferral for any child turning 5 after November. They know that virtually all of those children will go on to university and recognise it will be a benefit to be older in the senior years of schooling and beyond

DD is in student accommodation at Stirling, when she applied she was asked whether she wanted single sex or mixed. She went for mixed and is in a flat of 10 people, 6 female and 4 male. 2 of the girls are S5 leavers and won't be 18 until next summer. One of the male students is 33, another is 26. DD reports they are nice enough but keep themselves to themselves they don't really socialise with the rest of them who are all 17/18.

Yes the parents of the younger ones could have insisted on single sex accommodation, but I'm really not sure I would have been comfortable with my not long turned 17 year old daughter sharing a flat with a grown man twice her age.

@Eightytwenty we had to jump through hoops to defer my youngest born on Christmas Day. I knew he was not ready to go to school & all his nursery friends were younger than him.
My eldest (Nov born) was ready to start school at 4 and has excelled but I really think he needs to grow up a bit before heading to uni. People say take a year out, it’s a choice but I’m not sure what he would do that would be valuable. Too young to travel & too young for most volunteering options so he’d spend a year waiting tables! It’s really not ideal.
And most kids spend 6th year arsing around, achieving nothing. I just don’t understand the point. My son is doing 3AH and his timetable is sparse. Good experience for uni, I suppose but at 16, I think most need a bit more structure.

@BossFloss my 16 year old is enjoying all his free time. But unable to see how it’s not really free time and how the work will ramp out. Lack of maturity. Lack of organisation. Lack of structure. All challenging.

One of my DC was a year ahead of their peers up here, so left school just turned 17.

They did a Year in Industry and saved up for a year, so went to University with the same age students. It was a really good year for gaining independence and realising what their working life would be like once they graduated.

It might be worth looking at for your DCs that will be that bit younger.

I went to Edinburgh University 100 years ago and there was plenty of diversity on my course (Chemical Engineering). #chemenger

DD studied Economics at Edinburgh recently (from England), and they reduced her offer twice, so she ended up with a BBB offer (thankfully, she had AAA so was able to cope with the course.

We had a ChemEng reunion and while back, and the professors said that university education at £2000 fees was unsustainable, and they would have to recruit the majority rUK and ROW.

That is obviously happening. DD's course was 30% Scottish/EU, 40% rUK, 30% ROW. It really affects the culture of the student body. DD was fine as she is ethnically Scottish, so mixed well and had Scottish flatmates (which extended to their parents for Sunday lunch). My goddaughter, OTOH, was in an English bubble.

My kid and everyone in her class got into a scottish uni this year. Several of them to an RG

Kids who don't do as well won't. University isn't for everybody, personally I think getting rid of polytechnics & college courses & making everything a "degree" was a bad idea

The issue is is that kids who do well also don’t get into university. 5 x A at higher, 3 x A at advanced higher and a Nobel peace prize wouldn’t have got you into the university of Edinburgh law course last summer if you were not from a deprived area.

our kids ought to get the same opportunities offered to kids from rUK of a similar intelligence and just now they are not. That is the fault of the SNP and is entirely in their gift to solve.

My friends kid put down her dad in England's address to get a place, she'd applied with her mum's address the year before and not got offers. Her dad paid her tuition fees.

@Prancingponytail that's just not true.

I do understand that some people can't accept that their kids aren't at the level.

There's is a personal statement and reference as well as grades & behaviours in and out of school.

Mine didn't get into Cambridge and turned edinburgh & St Andrew's down.

Hopefully parents can reassure their child that They can try again next year or try a less competitive uni or an apprenticeship

There's no wrong path for any kid.