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Original poster

I am currently very pro Scottish Independence…

424 replies

Iheartscotland · 26/02/2023 13:50

what do you think, objectively, are the best arguments for independence?

and/or

for remaining in the union?

Answers that are well reasoned and backed up with facts and figures would be great, but you know- go with whatever you feel.

OP posts:
hryllilegur · 26/02/2023 13:51

Is this your homework OP?

Original poster
Iheartscotland · 26/02/2023 14:00

Haha no! I’m just curious, I often feel like I’m joining the “debate” 2 thirds of the way through, and catching people’s reasons indirectly on other threads and in other contexts irl. I thought it would be best to hear people’s current reasoning or feelings by asking directly.

OP posts:
BeyondMyWits · 26/02/2023 14:03

I'm a Scot living in England and couldn't care less. So long as they can't make me go back! and they do due democratic process, they can knock themselves out...

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 26/02/2023 14:05

I was pro indy and I even had lunch with Alex salmond which should tell you how For SNP I was.
Now I'm against it and really dislike the snp.
They haven't done anything to help the country, they actually hinder it. Eg: the wind turbine malarky. The gender recognition shit tipped me over the edge.
Corruption as well.
No thanks

Original poster
Iheartscotland · 26/02/2023 14:06

BeyondMyWits · 26/02/2023 14:03

I'm a Scot living in England and couldn't care less. So long as they can't make me go back! and they do due democratic process, they can knock themselves out...

Interesting @BeyondMyWits what makes you prefer England so much more?

OP posts:
Original poster
Iheartscotland · 26/02/2023 14:21

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 26/02/2023 14:05

I was pro indy and I even had lunch with Alex salmond which should tell you how For SNP I was.
Now I'm against it and really dislike the snp.
They haven't done anything to help the country, they actually hinder it. Eg: the wind turbine malarky. The gender recognition shit tipped me over the edge.
Corruption as well.
No thanks

@Hungrycaterpillarsmummy thanks, what’s the wind turbine malarkey?
I think I understand the self ID reason- nightmare all round really
with corruption- is it your impression that Scottish parliament is more corrupt/corruptible by its nature than Westminster? Or is it that the current SNP parliament is more corrupt than the current Conservative parliament down south?

OP posts:
emmylousings · 26/02/2023 14:33

I'm English, pro-union. I know it's up to the Scots, but I always feel the SNP dodge the central question of currency ..you gonna stick with the £? Or, what makes think you can join EU? Spain will block that, due to their issues with Catalonia. Do you think the EU will agree to a trade border with England - given all the hassle with n. Ireland? And what about the Scottish budget deficit? The SNP love banging on about their progressive policies (no stud fees / free home care), but they aren't paying for it, the English are. Personally I don't think it will happen in.my lifetime, because enough Scots understand these problems. Meanwhile, the SNP can conveniently blame everything that's wrong with Scotland on uk government.

Original poster
Iheartscotland · 26/02/2023 14:40

emmylousings · 26/02/2023 14:33

I'm English, pro-union. I know it's up to the Scots, but I always feel the SNP dodge the central question of currency ..you gonna stick with the £? Or, what makes think you can join EU? Spain will block that, due to their issues with Catalonia. Do you think the EU will agree to a trade border with England - given all the hassle with n. Ireland? And what about the Scottish budget deficit? The SNP love banging on about their progressive policies (no stud fees / free home care), but they aren't paying for it, the English are. Personally I don't think it will happen in.my lifetime, because enough Scots understand these problems. Meanwhile, the SNP can conveniently blame everything that's wrong with Scotland on uk government.

@emmylousings thanks! Would you say you’re mainly pro union because of benefits UK provides for Scotland? The benefits Scotland provides for the UK? Or mostly the practical reasons you listed? Or a combination of these?

OP posts:
ssd · 26/02/2023 14:40

I'm pro independence and the above post about England paying for something in Scotland only reinforces my view.

If England pays for Scotland, why the desperation to hold onto us??

Original poster
Iheartscotland · 26/02/2023 14:43

ssd · 26/02/2023 14:40

I'm pro independence and the above post about England paying for something in Scotland only reinforces my view.

If England pays for Scotland, why the desperation to hold onto us??

Thanks! Is there anything that would change your mind on independence? Also is it sorts of sentiments expressed in the previous post about the relationship between England and Scotland the main reason you’re pro independence or have other arguments persuaded you?

OP posts:
TreeByLeaf · 26/02/2023 14:50

I’m pro union. I have an English and a Scottish parent and live in England. I think the union strengthens each of us. We should have close ties to our neighbours, for trade and opportunities. But I’m also pro EU and gutted re Brexit.

giggly · 26/02/2023 14:52

ssd · 26/02/2023 14:40

I'm pro independence and the above post about England paying for something in Scotland only reinforces my view.

If England pays for Scotland, why the desperation to hold onto us??

This 100%

Original poster
Iheartscotland · 26/02/2023 14:54

TreeByLeaf · 26/02/2023 14:50

I’m pro union. I have an English and a Scottish parent and live in England. I think the union strengthens each of us. We should have close ties to our neighbours, for trade and opportunities. But I’m also pro EU and gutted re Brexit.

Thanks @TreeByLeaf, I agree with you on Brexit, I think I can probably guess the answer but are there any specific ways the union strengthens Scotland beyond trade/ freedom of moment etc? Is there anything that would change your mind do you think?

OP posts:
FoxInSocksSatOnBlocks · 26/02/2023 14:58

It won’t happen, but if it did Scotland would be fucked. We should just leave them to sort their own mess and not step in when it all goes tits up 🤷‍♀️

Orangesandlemons77 · 26/02/2023 15:05

I feel a bit sad about it. I'm Scottish but living in England.

angelopal · 26/02/2023 15:06

It's not the right time. They need to sort the country out first.

Not against it in principle but don't think we can afford it. Also they cannot just declare an election a defacto independence vote. Plenty of SNP voters that don't want independence.

Also they cannot tell us anything concrete e.g currency.

BeReet · 26/02/2023 15:14

I am Scottish, but live in England, am married to an English man and my kids are all half'n'halfs 🤣
I do not wish for Scottish independence and it would upset me greatly to see the break up of the union. The SNP couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery and like all politicians everywhere are far more interested in feathering their own nests. The GRR fiasco merely reinforced my opinion on their total ineptitude 🙄

maranella · 26/02/2023 15:18

ssd · 26/02/2023 14:40

I'm pro independence and the above post about England paying for something in Scotland only reinforces my view.

If England pays for Scotland, why the desperation to hold onto us??

I'm English and I don't know many English people who are 'desperate' to hold onto Scotland. A lot of English people are very fond of Scotland - I am myself - but it IS a financial drain on English taxpayers, which is particularly irritating when England and the govt in Westminster are blamed for almost every Scottish ill. As for Brexit - many of us south of the border also voted against it, so we're equally pissed off.

Spendonsend · 26/02/2023 15:19

I think scotland has a lot going for it in terms of natural resources and green energy production.

BigBoysDontCry · 26/02/2023 15:19

Why are you pro indy OP?

LizzieMacQueen · 26/02/2023 15:21

Simply, money. I don't think we have enough high earners to support the many non earners and low earners.

MajorCarolDanvers · 26/02/2023 15:22

A Scot living in Scotland

I loathe nationalism. It's small minded, petty, often (mostly) anti-English.

I don't think we are better than people living in Carlisle or Manchester.

The economics of independence are completely Mickey Mouse. They still haven't answered the currency or pensions issues. Because they can't.

In 2014 the answer to everything was oil would pay for it. That's obviously not going to happen.

We had our once in a lifetime vote and we voted no. Brexit. Cost of living crisis. Pandemic. War in Ukraine. Boris. Haven't shifted in the numbers. The latest polls are in fact more in favour of no. 56% no. 44% yes.

It's time to move on and focus on what matters.

We have the highest drug deaths in Europe
A&E waiting times worse than England
Education attainment gap getting wider
Divided country
Ferry fiasco

Yet we have a Scottish parliament focussed on a never ending campaign to divide us further whilst legislating on adding 20p to the price of fruit shoots and cans of irn bru and the rights of rapists to call themselves women.

EngTech · 26/02/2023 15:23

I am all for independence but when asked, the SNP could not confirm who the Bank of Last Resort would

When they were told it would not be the Bank of England, they still could not answer

Be careful what you wish for

Rainbowshit · 26/02/2023 15:28

EngTech · 26/02/2023 15:23

I am all for independence but when asked, the SNP could not confirm who the Bank of Last Resort would

When they were told it would not be the Bank of England, they still could not answer

Be careful what you wish for

And then in the growth commission report they basically said that all the banks would have left Scotland in the event of scexit anyway so it wouldn't matter. 🙈

Scottishskifun · 26/02/2023 15:33

I'm not for independence as they have never convinced me that the numbers actually work out or how it will be paid for!
A hard border with England (which they admitted would be required) would be disastrous for trade (over 60% of scottish exports) and make cost of food extremely high.

They always point to Scandinavian countries but taxes are very high in those places. I also get very sick of hearing but Westminster as a response.....when reality the stuff they are responsible for is a shit show!

I'm also English (lived in Scotland for 13 years most of my adult life now) and have experienced vitriol because of my accent especially around election times.
Before Nicola resigned we had started examining moving to Northumberland as we are so fed up with the division and I don't want my children to experience that because of a accent (scottish born sound English). We are waiting to see over the next 12 months now as it seems to have quietened down a bit. We can both move our jobs myself just a office move, DH would need to find another job but his profession is in high demand.