Is this normal in Scottish primary schools?

[thewriteradmitsthat]

Have nc for this. I caught up this weekend with a friend who is a primary teacher in Scotland. I was struck by her description of schooling seemed so different from my experience in primary education in England especially in terms of safeguarding procedures and some aspects of the curriculum.

I have always admired the Scottish education system- I thought Highers, for example, were better than A levels, when I was doing a levels myself, as they seemed to offer a bit of a broader education with still Studying 5 subjects before university. But what she described shocked me and I'm not sure if standards have slipped in Scotland or if they have got left behind or if my experience in England is unusual.

This is the kind of thing she was describing:

Lax rules re uniform due to “poverty proofing”
Safeguarding laxness eg schools not having secure perimeter fence
Not the norm to have electronic sign in systems with photo ID and visitor lanyards- the norm in England
Emphasis on free play and discovery learning, carousels of activities where teacher facilitates, rather than directly and explicitly instructing them- normal in younger primary years in England but this was in older primary year’s eg p6 and p7
Lack of challenge in the curriculum eg maths- content not as challenging as what is required in ks2 sats and linked to the fact obviously no formal testing like in sats
iPads/chrome books for all students resulting in student doing very little handwritten work
Funding cuts so that schools have no janitors, and Principal Teacher roles being cut.

I it was brought by the brave and strong parents of Dunblane who fought tirelessly to change the gun control laws of the UK. You have them to thank, not an electronic sign in system.

@allthecrooksandnannies

When Michael Forsyth was Scottish Secretary at the Scottish Office (before devolution) he tried to implement a programme of schools governance that eliminated Local Authority control. It would've meant more control for him.

Jordanhill was the only school that did enter the programme and it still remains outside Local Authority control to this day.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202200305248//*

Now that the points you raised in your OP have been answered is there any other derogatory comments you and your friend would like to make about the Scottish education system OP?

It's the reason my dc school did not introduce an optional new PE kit following a consultation last year- they realised that as soon as something is optional it is bought by those parents who can afford it and want their dc to have the most up to day version, stigmatising the rest.

So it's a valid argument imo.

OP would rather there be a 10 foot high prison fence with a barbed wire too around that school.

Uniform is very relaxed in the schools my DC attend but I don't mind and I think it offers flexibility. There are uniform banks at the schools they attend and regular swap shops too for parents if their children outgrow the trousers, skirt, polo shirt etc. Very inclusive for all regardless of parental income. No fuss is made of logos, supermarket stock uniform suffices. Joggers worn with sweatshirt and polo on PE days - logical. No need for changing.

Security sufficient at school reception - buzzer entry system in place.

I like that there's no serious testing from a young age.

I have always thought the uniforms and the uniform rules in England are ridiculous.

Also the English system seems so focused on testing the kids all the time. I feel sorry for the poor kids.

Finally awards for attendance are completely unfair and outdated.

I work in a primary school. We have 8ft fences which children who want to get out will still scale. All our gates have high sliding sort of latches to enhance security. You can only enter through the front door which requires you to be buzzed in and met by a member of staff. You are then escorted where you need to go once signed in with a visitor sticker. No one can easily get in or walk around. Staff know faces so will recognise regular visitors. We’re not on the main road and we have no parking facilities so not so easy to find.

Uniform is mainly a sweatshirt and we have a uniform bank that parents can approach our admin staff to access with no judgement or others knowing. We do a lot of outdoor learning so always in the community.

I've not noticed that in my school, OP, and it's pretty affluent. Most parents send the children in supermarket clothes. Uniform should get muddy, painted and covered in whiteboard pen marks.

We always display a shirt like this to new P1 parents in June.

A strict uniform policy, where items can only be bought in certain places puts a barrier to education and in my view is completely wrong.

We've got one logoed polo shirt for picture day but cheap white polos for everyday (due to ds refusing to fasten his coat and appearing to spend most lunch breaks skidding on his tummy on the grass).

Most of the parents do similar, plus massive push by Parent Council to reuse uniform so there's always racks that you can help yourself from - definitely no stigma about secondhand/no logo.

And she apparently also thinks we should follow England's magical Ofsted to raise attainment.

If your friend is blaming PE kit on PE and MUGA says for her poor classroom management then perhaps she would get in better with Ofsted up her arse.

Same here @stargirl1701 - uniform is supermarket bought in the main, with logo sweatshirts for those who want them. A variety of options means that the pupils can choose what they want to wear.

The OP’s friend will know this of course, and will have enlightened her.

I agree with you here.

I live near Dunblane and the three primary schools I have experience of look more or less like the photo posted earlier - no 2m perimeter fence, though they might have a bit of playground like that for ball games. The local village school has the school field across the road, it's open to the public and the kids go to & from across the road at lunchtime etc to play.

Stirlingshire secondary schools were all rebuilt in the last 20ish years to the same kind of plan, and they are quite open-access to the grounds. Are English secondary schools all fenced in then?

Learning through play in later primary years is brilliant. It is more self-directed, inquiry-based and requires so many more skills than rote learning.

Are English secondary schools all fenced in then?

Yes mostly - you will see the dfe guidance I quoted below recommends a 2m high fence. As I explained earlier, Rightly or wrongly, there are examples of English schools getting poor ofsted reports which cite the security of the school site as a factor in the judgment, although usually it is in conjunction with other safeguarding concerns.

Generally speaking when I read threads on Mumsnet about schools in England I am glad we left.

Not every child has been given a tablet, many bigger schools share class sets of tablets. Personally I think it’s a great idea, there is still a range of high quality writing going on but introducing tablets is a great idea, I am unsure why you think it isn’t.
The children in my class love coming to school in their pe kit. They don’t have to and can get changed if they choose to but it does not affect the school day.
negatively. In fact we gain teaching time rather than loosing out to changing time.
Learning through play is vital in all children’s development irregardless of age. Carousel activities and active learning help to stimulate children’s interests, encouraging them to problem solve and develop their skills for life. Again, I am unsure why you.
look at it in a negative view.
It seems your friend is unhappy and has painted her school in a bad light.

I used to work in a primary school now I’m in a ASN school. Re: uniform my experience is it enforced in high schools but not primary. Supermarket uniform is fine. In our school we are just happy the children are at school we do not care what they wear. Most teachers I know will regularly buy pieces of uniform for those children who can’t afford them (PE shoes, socks, polo shirts etc) same with snacks.

@thewriteradmitsthat

But, now you understand Scottish schools do not procure fencing for their buildings. Estate management at the LA do.

Yes I do now thank you. I was responding to another poster who was asking about English secondaries.

Just checking for understanding 😂

@stargirl1701

Could you clarify the relationship between the LA and the inspectorate? they are independent of each other yes? (Sorry if obvious just want to be sure!)

HMI is the national inspectorate.