SNP stance on pensions

[Mountaingoat12]

The SNP - in all of its past independence propositions - have been wildly optimistic, but with their latest stance on pensions they have moved to actually gaslighting their supporters. I just cannot comprehend it.

In 2014 the independence white paper stated that after independence, Indy Scotland would pay Scottish pensions. They seem to now be saying that following independence the rest of the UK (I.e. England, Wales and Northern Ireland) will be responsible for paying Scottish pensions, which is just not at all true. Never has been, never will be. I find it just unfathomable. Trying to actually gaslight the electorate???

All a bit brexit-y isn't it, run a referendum asserting the kind of deal you'll get and then when the wheels come off the bus it's too late.

Isn’t Nicola keen on a Universal payment for everyone in an independent Scotland of about £5500 ? See to recall something about this . Think the SNP have scored an own goal here on the pension assumptions. Might make a few Indy supporters approaching pension age think again . As I’ve stated before Alex Salmon said get independence through before full benefits are devolved . What was even more alarming was the SNP suggesting they would pay higher pensions than UK . Definitely would end up means tested . Taxes would have to rise and services would be cut and who is going to take charge as obviously the present SG is totally feeble on anything that matters .

So would the suggestion be universal payment of a set amount that younger people can work to top up but older pensioners have to survive on?

The low state pension predominantly affects those who have had illness affecting their ability to work and women, as we are more likely to not have paid into private pensions due to taking time off for raising children.

Also, the low state pension is done to force those who can afford it to take out private pensions and boost the income of pension providers, mostly based in the City of London.

With the UK Gov breaking their promise to keep the triple lock, the percentage of pensioner in poverty is likely to increase.

An independent Scotland allows the opportunity to put in place a better system.

For example, the Danish system (ATP) provides a much higher pension and people can have their contributions paid for during parental leave or periods of unemployment. The minimum one will receive is £18,500.

Do we have estimates of the tax raises that will be required to find a new system with higher pension payments?

I thought child benefit recipients had NI contributions paid?

I thought child benefit recipients had NI contributions paid?

Yes they do. Or anyone on means-tested benefits.

So if you sign on due to a period of unemployement, or are long-term sick and get benefits, then your NI is still paid.

@Selkiesarereal

What, Ian Blackford isn’t an expert on this but our Finance Minister said he was and whilst being a humble crofter as well!

Shocked by Rhiannon’s comment, shocked to the core!

👍😊

The current Scottish pensions bill is £8bn. So double it and we have to find an extra £8bn. Just the other day Kate Forbes stated that if you wanted to raise an extra £12bn you would have to double income tax, so if you want to double pensions and pay for it via income tax, income tax would have to go up by 2/3rds. And of course living in an Indy Scotland we have £15bn fiscal transfer from the Barnet formula to find down the back of the sofa too. A tripling of income tax should more than cover it though. And then we start looking at UBI.

Oh, starryeyed , I can see where your name came from. 😉

A tripling of income tax should more than cover it though

That'll make us more like Sturgeon's beloved Scandinavia I suppose.

The thing that puzzles me is why people continue to vote SNP. It's incomprehensible. The SNP don't seem to be able to add up, and definitely can't 'explain their working'. How anyone can take Ian Blackford seriously is beyond me.

From the holes in the road to the GRA, they just exude incompetence, and yet...people keep voting for them.

@Scianel

A tripling of income tax should more than cover it though

That'll make us more like Sturgeon's beloved Scandinavia I suppose.

😂 I think I would then move the Scandinavia to get the much better package and standard of living!

Great advert come and live in Scotland pay 3 times the amount of tax and city lifestyle of victorian tenements .......

@Crowdfundingforcake

I thought child benefit recipients had NI contributions paid?

You don't even need to be receiving CB. For lots of couples if one parent is earning to much its not worth claiming CB. But they should still register the child so the Mum gets NI credits while the child is under 5 and they put the child in the system so they get an NI number at 16.

@Lucienandjean they just say independence is waft they want: no thought for how it will work.

I now think it’s just thick.

They rely on people being thick and gullible. Seems Scotland is full of willing candidates. I wish people would actually look at how poorly the SNP perform. Education is dire, SNHS is dire. I loathe the way they withhold funds from councils then expect them not to increase council tax to make it up. I loathe the way that they take Covid recovery money and don’t disperse it. They moan on about the Tories but are not doing much better themselves. If their foolish supporters voted Labour we might get a better government in both the UK and Holyrood.

And having lived in Scandinavia their income tax is probably 50% higher than ours - especially basic rate tax - but they prioritise spending differently. Virtually free childcare, pensions less generous. Health service ok but you have to pay to get in the door to see a GP and to attend A&E. you have to pay the full cost of prescriptions up to a set point. Unemployment benefit is incredibly generous - as long as you have worked previously to build up entitlement.

Taxes will definitely increase hugely if we ever get independence
People should bear that in mind when voting

If taxes increase too much your higher earners who pay most and get little back will up sticks and leave.

Which could cause the housing market to crash too.

Yep higher earners already pay several thousand more than English counterparts. The industries which have higher earners (financial for example) have already said they would move office locations.

Whenever I ask a friend who is in favour of independence about higher taxes her response is always the same.....it won't happen or its worth the cost........with astronomical prices this year for for food, fuel, power and goods I wonder even a 20% increase in taxes (not the higher rate predicted to find the shortfall as is let alone double pensions) can realistically be afforded by even middle of the road families.

But whenever I ask this question its like head in the sand! I completely get a passion but the reality is completely separate.

Are nationalists really happy being broke for the next decade? No holidays, struggling to afford basics even more?!

I worked my arse off to get out of 30K of debt the thought of financial instability fills me with dread and makes me feel sick!

Would they be able to take away UK citizenship?

I wouldn't have thought so. People in NI are still able to get RoI passports.

That's one of the issues around the NI pulling out the EU but keeping the open border.

But then People are deluded if they think Scotland and England would have an open border. It would be passports at Carlisle.

But that also causes issues for people who live and work on opposite sides of the border either permanently or travelling workers like construction workers.

England would more than welcome the well earning individuals. Meanwhile things swing both ways they'll be people who think Scotland sounds like the land of milk and honey who'd be hot footing it north.

Yes, @Lockdownbear I used to live in Dumfries and Galloway and Carlisle is the nearest shopping centre and entertainment place. A border would be unthinkable if they actually understood that.

Even they are now saying there would be a hard border.