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Guilt Free Railing 12

999 replies

WouldBeGood · 01/09/2021 15:28

The railing goes on

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Thread gallery
6
WouldBeGood · 09/09/2021 12:43

But, I’ve been thinking about NS’ comment to Murdo Fraser.

“Shame on you!”

For attending a protest by women in support of their rights.

Clarifies for me her misogyny and skewed values.

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ElephantOfRisk · 09/09/2021 12:52

yep i agree @WouldBeGood. how very dare he attend a protest about something he has been very vocal about in support of women? Hmm

AS i say, i know he's a Tory yada yada but he seems very genuine about this and tweets support for woman a lot so it's not a token jumping on the bandwagon thing and making an appearance just for the sake of it.

I'm sure plenty of SNP MPs, MSPs, workers and supporters attend rallies for independence.

ElephantOfRisk · 09/09/2021 12:54

Don't know if folk saw this?:

twitter.com/murdo_fraser/status/1434445105461698562?s=08

and more about the same person:

twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1434567165747863563?s=08

Obviously again SNP supporters might want to look away...

WouldBeGood · 09/09/2021 13:07

The protest was specifically cross party too. Nats and Yoons united on this cause.

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BlameItOnTheBlackStar · 09/09/2021 13:12

I find it hard to get into discussion about this now. I just feel so absolutely sick about it. And there seems to be absolutely nothing anyone can do to stop it.

It's what made me leave the SNP, and it's only got much, much worse since then.

WouldBeGood · 09/09/2021 13:17

I think you’re not alone there @BlameItOnTheBlackStar

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ElephantOfRisk · 09/09/2021 13:22

It has and i'm sure everything has been discussed to n'th degree but the thing that always puzzles me is that I truly appreciate that trans people feel as under threat from men as women do, but this would mean that the people they also consider a threat have access to the spaces that they want access to for their own safety. Do they think that it's up to women to protect them? Honestly, prior to all this if a transwoman entered a female toilet and went about their business in normal fashion, I wouldn't bat an eyelid. It seems to have made an issue that possibly wouldn't have existed or have been dealt with on an individual basis for that particular part. Appreciate that there are many more strands to this.

ElephantOfRisk · 09/09/2021 13:30

I'm generally a live and let live person to be honest but this has really riled me up as it's all about some shouty activists and not about genuine people in crisis.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 09/09/2021 13:40

I agree @ElephantOfRisk, I have never felt remotely threatened by transwomen prior to all of this, and indeed probably shared bathroom facilities etc. without even realising it. I didn't give transpeople any thought at all really, although obviously I was aware of their existence.

But now the extremely aggressive nature of certain wings of the TRA lobby have really opened my eyes to issues I previously had given no thought to at all. The fact that TRAs can shout 'death to TERFs' and scream in women's faces, threaten them or even physically assault them with little more than a murmur, yet women fighting to protect their rights are condemned as shameful bigots by the most powerful people in Scotland makes ME feel pretty unsafe. The fact that there will clearly be no meaningful debate on this before the SNP/greens rubber stamp it all let alone any concessions to protect single sex spaces (for instance) just creates a feeling of frustration and helplessness. Writing to MSPs and protesting does nothing except get you branded as a bigot apparently, so what exactly are women supposed to do?!!

I'm sure most transwomen just want to get on with their lives in peace like the rest of us, but self ID and pushing these 'progressive' (hah!) transrights opens the door to everyone, even the aggressive misogynists who seemingly take pleasure in tormenting females. Surely there is a way to make the process less degrading for transpeople (if that is what the problem is) without throwing away all checks and balances completely and allowing anyone to ID as a woman? I bet there must be a few transwomen who are horrified by all this, not least because the backlash will make their lives much more difficult than before.

BlameItOnTheBlackStar · 09/09/2021 13:40

Yes, the TRAs have nothing to do with actual trans people just trying to live a nice quiet life.

And yet they've managed to bully and capture almost every prominent public figure. The lack of critical thinking has astonished and terrified me in equal measure.

WouldBeGood · 09/09/2021 13:54

I’ve learnt a lot recently. Some of these people don’t really want to be women as such it seems. I was a bit naive. Things like the autogynophilia were new concepts. And frankly not welcome ones!

I was always supportive of women only spaces, much more so now. I feel for the ordinary trans people.

But no matter wfat your views, it’s hardly shameful to join this protest.

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ElephantOfRisk · 09/09/2021 13:55

Glad to see that despite being labelled as terfs etc, most on this thread are pretty much in agreement. We shouldn't even have to say that we are not against transfolk trying to live their lives with respect and dignity. To think anything else is really not ok, but that really isn't what this has become.

BlameItOnTheBlackStar · 09/09/2021 13:58

Exactly. It's just the same old violent misogyny, only they've found a new and improved way of accessing our private spaces, which EXIST FOR A REASON.

mibbelucieachwell · 09/09/2021 15:12

It's come to something when you can be aggressively criticised for stating that a woman is an adult human female indeed.

How does nobody in power seem to realise that many of these aggressive either have MH problems, are autistic, have autogynephilia, don't want to think of themselves as gay, are sex offenders...... ? MN Towers this is known as fact. There is a much higher correlation of autism in trans people, especially female to male than in the population at large. AGP is known to be a common factor in males presenting as women and there are many instances of transgender male to females being convicted of sex offences.

'Chestfeeding' anyone? From ahem, breasts.

I find it incredible how quickly some of the tra's terms have made it into dictionaries 'Cis'and 'terf are there for example. And how common it is on forms to be offered more than two options for your sex.

It must be awful if you've quietly transitioned before it became trendy. If you want to 'pass' as a woman and don't want to threaten people standing up for women's rights.

Why are women not allowed to have boundaries? Why must our need to feel safe in changing rooms, public toilets, dormitories, hospital wards be less important than the offence or fear that a transgender person who doesn't look anything like the gender they claim they are or is only a part time woman?

listentomydeclaration · 09/09/2021 15:18

I went to the toilet in Pret when in London at the weekend and there were unisex toilets. No men's or women's toilets anymore.
Several cubicles available although thankfully I was alone when I went in. Toilets were filthy and seats were up.
I just kept thinking what if teen DD had been with me?

ElephantOfRisk · 09/09/2021 15:30

re toilets, I can still remember DH coming back from the toilets at a lovely theatre venue - tres middle class Grin, while waiting for a children's theatre show to begin. I think it was pre-school so my two would be maybe 4 and 3. Anyway, DH would always check for a free cubicle, make sure it was clean and take the boys in there and make sure it was clean after. When he was out and they were all washing their hands, he saw a bloke in with a toddler (2ish) and it was one of those big stainless steel trough type of urinals. Bloke just finishing having a pee whilst toddler actually standing holding on to the urinal and peering over watching the water, bloke gives his fingertips a slight wave under the tap - and then takes toddlers hand, the hand that was holding onto the urinal, where he (and no doubt many other men) has just pee'd and leaves. DH finishes up washing his and my DC hands and gets some tissue to use on the door handles to get out....

It's not all men but doesn't anyone teach DC to use a public toilet hygienically? We carried about hand sanitiser before it was fashionable...

Having said that, I remember taking DSs for swimming lessons in a local school and when we moved from them getting changed in the girls to getting changed in the boys I noted how much cleaner and tidier the boys was.

ElephantOfRisk · 09/09/2021 15:37

Just to add to the £10k Jane Godley yesterday, today we have nearly half a million pissed up the wall on an state energy scheme that's not happening.

Honestly, I could sit and look at all these schemes, send a few emails and say it is or isn't a good idea and I'd do it for a lot less than half a million a time.

Should really gather all these together to show folks it's not just the tories that they think waste money.

WouldBeGood · 09/09/2021 16:07

Holyrood also now to be a “protected site” which makes it easier for police to remove protestors as anyone there without lawful authority.

The legislation already applies to WM and the Senedd, but it’s timing is poor here, and I think we can guess who will be prevented from protesting.

From the Herald on Twitter. I saw it tweeted about by an independence supporter before I’m told the herald is the yoon miuthpiece 😃

Guilt Free Railing 12
OP posts:
ssd · 09/09/2021 16:09

Agree with you all, this is bloody nonsense. But I'm still dreaming of an independent Scotland run by decent left wing conscientious people. Labour preferably. Ain't gonna happen though. I hate the tories and the snp have lost the plot.
I really wouldn't know who to vote for now.

ssd · 09/09/2021 16:10

Whats yoon @WouldBeGood?

WouldBeGood · 09/09/2021 16:13

Pejorative term for Unionist @ssd

OP posts:
runningpink · 09/09/2021 16:41

Yes was the first time receiving the flu vaccine due to his age

runningpink · 09/09/2021 16:41

That was for @tigger1001

ResilienceWanker · 09/09/2021 17:01

@ElephantOfRisk

It has and i'm sure everything has been discussed to n'th degree but the thing that always puzzles me is that I truly appreciate that trans people feel as under threat from men as women do, but this would mean that the people they also consider a threat have access to the spaces that they want access to for their own safety. Do they think that it's up to women to protect them? Honestly, prior to all this if a transwoman entered a female toilet and went about their business in normal fashion, I wouldn't bat an eyelid. It seems to have made an issue that possibly wouldn't have existed or have been dealt with on an individual basis for that particular part. Appreciate that there are many more strands to this.
Exactly. To some extent I think the GRA is a bit of a red herring... As I understand, not all (even not the majority) of trans people ever get a GRC and nowhere asks for a GRC routinely (I assume they aren't even allowed to) - its only relevant for eg getting married or getting buried as your acquired gender. The Equality Act prohibits discrimination on the grounds of gender reassignment (which is so wooly as to have required no previous action at all other than "being on the journey of altering your gender") so "self ID" is basically already in place for eg toilets, changing rooms, same sex services, changing documentation etc. And trans-people have been using these facilities and services as they want and are entitled. Indeed, in order to apply for a GRC at the moment, they have to prove "having lived as their acquired gender" (whatever t f that means) for a certain time, so would have to have been using those facilities during that time. I know there are exemptions in the Equality Act where single sex spaces can be kept - whether or not a trans person has a GRC - and it seems to be these that are at risk at the moment, from what I understand. Though that seems to be not through self ID itself, but rather changing the language so that "woman only service" no longer means what we all know it should mean, but includes anyone who is claiming the protected characteristic of gender reassignment too!

I accept totally that it wouldn't be safe or dignified for a trans woman to use male facilities or vice versa - much though it should be perfectly acceptable for anyone to "present" however they want, and in any case, we shouldn't be imposing the stereotype that men shouldn't wear makeup, dresses etc and women should look a certain way. But we are where we are, so it's reasonable to accept that TW need segregation from other, potentially violent males, just as much as women do. And personally, there are many occasions when I don't actually care (or know) if someone in the cubicle next to me is a man or a woman - though obviously not everyone feels the same way, and they are entitled to that. Sometimes I think it depends on the behaviour exhibited. A TW changing quietly in a communal women's changing room - fine. A TW prancing around showing everyone their bits - not so much. But I'd feel the same if it was a woman too, and I think either should be able to be stopped on grounds of indecent exposure or something without hiding behind "but I'm a woman - I'm just getting changed" . And sometimes I think there really should be a blanket ban - just because of the vulnerability of the women/ girls involved - like crisis centres/ refuges and so on. I think most genuine trans people would likely agree that they don't want to make anyone feel unsafe or uncomfortable!

But I don't know how those women's spaces can be kept for those who need them to be single sex (justifiably), without harming (genuine) trans people who are also vulnerable - so I end up tying myself in knots. I just can't understand how that undoubted conflict of rights can just be brushed away by "no women's rights will be harmed by the making of this policy" or "we aren't going to debate this because all the other side are bigots/violent". It is a reasonable question, as many people recognise. Whatever solution is offered may not please everyone, and there may well be some conflict and some compromise, but the answer can't be a foregone conclusion of "oh, just let the women budge up and be kind" or "well, we'll change the definition of women to include men, and men to include women, and take away all reference to any biological function or physical feature that only one of those groups have, because that might offend someone". Because that's just bananas.

ResilienceWanker · 09/09/2021 17:09

@ElephantOfRisk

Just to add to the £10k Jane Godley yesterday, today we have nearly half a million pissed up the wall on an state energy scheme that's not happening.

Honestly, I could sit and look at all these schemes, send a few emails and say it is or isn't a good idea and I'd do it for a lot less than half a million a time.

Should really gather all these together to show folks it's not just the tories that they think waste money.

Hmmmm - who'd have thought that a state energy company really wasn't going to work..? I mean, I think at the time it was proposed, pretty much everyone in the energy industry and relevant experts said, nope - that's not going to work. But hey, they've had to have a look at it, spent some money on a review, and now they've realised it's too expensive and inefficient as everyone who knew anything about it said at the time, they've quietly dropped it. Hmm
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