Scotland- Enough is enough

[Bytheloch]

Starting this thread for those of us who are done. I don’t want to just rail or fight about it with those who still believe that government messaging is in our best interest. Enough is enough.

I’ll stick with listening to Witty and Vallance.

I don’t want Covid, or flu, or norovirus, or shingles, or whatever.

But I don’t think it’s necessary to have restrictions now to save me.

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

I’ll stick with listening to Witty and Vallance.

Whitty and Vallance? You mean the ones that deliberately presented wildly inaccurate projections to frighten the population when they had more accurate ones in their procession? Those people?

I remember the infamous 'not a prediction' chart from last October (which was proven to be absurd), but I'd still put more faith in them than in Devi or Deepti, or any of the indy SAGE lot, and I agree that the quality of scientific advisors in Scotland is dire. Devi has a very clear political agenda and seems more interested in justifying her obviously failed zero COVID strategy than actually getting us out of this. Deepti actually seems worse if that's possible, and her latest rants on how the BBC reporting a study showing (again) minimal effect in children is abhorrent government propaganda and condemning a generation to long term illness or disability are frankly unhinged. Neither will accept criticism or discuss alternative views and both come across as zealots. At least Chris Whitty displays some appreciation of nuance when he explains that the decision to vaccinate children is complicated by a lack of safety data and isn't clear cut. Perhaps most importantly, Whitty and Valance (and others on their team) actually have an exit plan beyond "shut the borders and restrict everyone until everyone is vaccinated/schools are remodelled/cases come down/whatever new goalpost they think of next, and to hell with the consequences".

I feel here in Scotland too that the decisions reflect entirely what Devi etc say, rather than the first minister taking on board what Devi says and weighing it up against the economic / mental health cost of following the science to the letter, and making her own decision. That is her job, and is what she is meant to be doing.

I read that Nicola had raised concerns that Boris announcing freedom day on 19th July might confuse Scots who might assume ‘freedom day’ applies here too and not follow the Scottishy rules. I don’t think Scots are daft enough to get confused, on the contrary they are clever enough to see a good excuse if they want to use one. “But Boris said we didn’t have to follow rules anymore and he’s the PM so I thought it applied in Scotland too”

Majority of science for masks where based on early studies the new variants need far less and far smaller particle size making it more airborne which escapes the majority of masks unless FFP3 this builds up in the air. Masks don't stop you breathing that particle matter in if its already built up in the air you would also breathe it in without a mask.

The biggest issue is that the majority of people don't use them correctly so they become pretty pointless.
It's like everyone is obsessed with surfaces actually ventilation is a far bigger risk factor and the govt has recognised this (safe outside or windows open ring a bell change from Facts?!)

I don't really care what people choose to do just think it's a sad society position that people are shamed either way. I've definitely had comments when I've had to take them off despite it being bloody obvious that I'm incredibly breathless and reaching for my inhaler and spacer!

For me enough is enough for the pathetic excuse the SG keep giving for their refusal to help 87,000 people and counting with long covid with the proper specialists!

"I feel here in Scotland too that the decisions reflect entirely what Devi etc say, rather than the first minister taking on board what Devi says and weighing it up against the economic / mental health cost of following the science to the letter, and making her own decision. That is her job, and is what she is meant to be doing."

Spot on. Our entire strategy has been Devi's, with little thought for the wider issues, or even whether or not it was feasible. You can even hear Devi when Sturgeon speaks sometimes, whether it be the 'close to elimination' chat last summer or the stuff about maximum suppression and controlling like Measles more recently. Sturgeon should have taking a wide variety of views into account and not just accepting a narrow view point as gospel.

@Scottishskifun, are masks completely no use against the delta varient unless its a ffp3?

[quote ssd]@Scottishskifun, are masks completely no use against the delta varient unless its a ffp3?[/quote]
Masks still stop the large droplets which is also a transmission risk with the delta variant but its more transmissible because less of a viral load is needed and small droplets are also sufficient to catch it.

It's not that they are useless as such they still stop large particles but no if you have air build up of viral load then masks do not stop this. You need ventilation either a mechanical system or open windows etc to keep refreshing and keep the viral load down.

The original variant needed a greater viral load hence masks were of more benefit.

Thanks that makes sense.

I'm in Glasgow this weekend and some shops are allowing you to try on clothes, some are not. It's very confusing and there doesn't seem to be a national directive on this

Its to do with staffing and the sizes of the fitting rooms. And ventilation.
But i agree, its not one size fits all. And its murder trying to explain the rules we have to follow when working in the fitting rooms. Customers seem to think we make up the rules ourselves and tut at us and eye roll. And pull down their masks to talk to us face to face. Or make remarks to the person in the queue next to them how stupid we are with the rules etc.
Its not much fun in retail these days.

A national directive would be great. But every shop seems to be interpreting the rules to suit themselves. And IME its the ones you'd expect to really look after the staff who don't.

I made a vow at the start of this that I wouldn’t take my anger about the ridiculous rules out on staff, who are not to blame.

I can see why people get frustrated, mind you, and if I ever meet one of the SG I shall not be so restrained 😂

I really appreciate that @wouldbegood

Most customers are decent. But when you've been wearing a mask since 9am and its nearly tea time and someone has a go at you for asking them to do xyz , when you're only doing as your workplace tells you to do, and after having a rant at you they say "and im so hot in this effing mask too!!".....honestly you want to ragdoll them by the hair out the place...

I can imagine @ssd!

Interesting to see all the announcements for England today. It puts the onus on employers to decide what’s right for their employees. Lots of other freedoms unlocked, with caveats to cover the governments back, of course🤣 I’ll take that though, if it’s going to be up to me to decide on my/my family’s health.

All this irrelevant for us though, as we await ScotGov announcement tomorrow, which will not be as optimistic, of that I’m certain. Happy to be corrected if it’s anywhere near the freedom England will regain very soon.

I'm not a gambling person Bytheloch but i'd put money on her speech starting with "it's a very difficult decision, but we need to be cautious...."

@Tomorrowisanewday

I'm not a gambling person Bytheloch but i'd put money on her speech starting with "it's a very difficult decision, but we need to be cautious...."

Indeed, don’t waste your money

Absolutely no justification for us having any less than England and Wales- particularly as far as school protocol is concerned too- it really would be impossible to enforce after the football, etc.

I’m sure it will be rich in words, unnecessarily long in length, but maybe, just maybe, there will be some positive points in the announcement tomorrow, or is that expecting too much?*

*goes to put bet on

Can't see any scientific justification for us not getting the same relaxations as England
But when did that matter to Nicola

We don't need science @user1487194234! When have you ever seen Nicola or one of the 'advisors' presenting any data? No, we have her 'judgement' and that's all we need!

Fingers crossed - but I think I agree (no money being risked, though - because my predictions of how NS will respond to this have been pretty bad throughout).

Obviously it'll be 2/3 weeks later (caution, caution...) and so right at the end of the school holidays rather than at the start - but I really don't think NS will be able to diverge too far from the rest of the UK. Apart from masks still being mandated in certain places, rather than just "expected". Though I'm pretty sure there will be some dig at the loss of furlough or something meaning that she'd rather do things in a different way, but her hands are tied...

The only possible reason for delay I think could be to get more people double jagged, but I don't think she will push that now - as the issue seems to be a fall off in the number of people coming forward for first and second doses, and not any supply issue with the vaccines (according to the news last night). So there seems to be either vaccine hesitancy in the younger groups, or they just haven't been able to get to their appointments or access it any other way - or possibly the big rise in infections in the younger groups has meant they can't be vaccinated yet as you need to leave 4 weeks after a positive test (for second doses too - so the 30-50s) and they have been very, very reluctant to give alternate vaccines to those who are anxious about AZ or vary from the 8 week minimum - unlike in England. None of which reflects well on the SG frankly...and as they can't use it as a dig at the UK distribution process, they'll probably just let that point slide!

The stated aim is now not reducing cases as far as possible - but "living with it". So I can't see any justification for not accepting that there WILL be an increase in cases, but that won't overwhelm the NHS (assuming there is resource provided for its covid AND non-covid load) and won't lead to a huge increase in deaths. If there is still a reluctance to accept the increase in cases, I really can't see how this will end, because there will always be an increase in cases when restrictions ease. But the point is, it really doesn't matter!

Of course,silly me !

Just listened to the Level zero bollocks- 🤣
We’re in level zero now, but with many of the control measures and restrictions from two and one, still in place. A nice little put down to UK gov thrown in for good measure. School and education setting decisions due in August, sigh.

My primary age child could set out a clearer plan than this🤷‍♀️

@Bytheloch

Just listened to the Level zero bollocks- 🤣 We’re in level zero now, but with many of the control measures and restrictions from two and one, still in place. A nice little put down to UK gov thrown in for good measure. School and education setting decisions due in August, sigh.

My primary age child could set out a clearer plan than this🤷‍♀️

Don't know why I watch as she increases my blood pressure!

School announcements will be made in "plenty time". Now is barely plenty time. Closer to the return date is just nuts.