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Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Scotland- Enough is enough

720 replies

Bytheloch · 19/06/2021 10:10

Starting this thread for those of us who are done. I don’t want to just rail or fight about it with those who still believe that government messaging is in our best interest. Enough is enough.

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latissimusdorsi · 09/07/2021 12:22

"The science " has always been twisted to what organisations/Gov/people want it to fit
The science said was ok for thousands of people outdoors in Fanzone but not 30 nursery parents in a playground
The science said 17/18 yr olds in S6 could go to school with no social distancing but same age group could not set foot in their college
All these organisations would claim they were following "the science "

Bytheloch · 09/07/2021 12:44

Why would you waste your time posting on a thread that doesn’t align with your views?

Enough is enough on here. No judgement, no covid denial. No amount of fucks given anymore to those that like to rant from their own tartan ivory towers with the aim of blowing up threads, it’s really quite a dated technique, btw. Enough is enough.

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forfucksakenett · 09/07/2021 12:44

Well yes and no. In each of the examples you give 'the science' is part of a balancing act with other things and so yes the science was 'twisted' it was part of a payoff. The benefits of being in school for example were seen to outweigh the risks of covid. The risks weren't denied. Masks are a bit different to this. There's no political or social motivation to suggest that masks work to limit transmission is there? If you choose to wear a mask it has no impact on anyone else so there's no need to twist 'the science'.

forfucksakenett · 09/07/2021 12:49

@Bytheloch

Why would you waste your time posting on a thread that doesn’t align with your views?

Enough is enough on here. No judgement, no covid denial. No amount of fucks given anymore to those that like to rant from their own tartan ivory towers with the aim of blowing up threads, it’s really quite a dated technique, btw. Enough is enough.

Well when I joined the conversation there was definitely a dialogue of oppositional views going on. That's generally what happens when people post things that are a bit ridiculous or controversial or interesting or whatever.

I would suggest that if you only want to speak to people with the exact same views as you then you should set up a WhatsApp group or look to something a bit more private. People can and will pop on here and post things that don't fit with your view because it's an open chat forum.

forfucksakenett · 09/07/2021 13:01

And the nursery thing was an absolute disgraceful interpretation of the science. Appalling way to treat people.

osbertthesyrianhamster · 09/07/2021 13:03

@forfucksakenett

Em you said 'it is when you post a load of bollocks like that'. I assume in relation to my post which you shared.

My knickers aren't twisted I can assure you.

Yes, 'you', not 'When forfucksakenett posts a lot of bollocks'. Hmm See the difference. 'You' means in general or I'd have tagged you (actually I'd have just used your handle because I think this tagging function is bollocks and fills my spam file).
Bytheloch · 09/07/2021 13:08

I do understand how threads work. I don’t expect only those who agree enough is enough to post or read.

Then again, I wouldn’t personally waste my own time posting steak recipes on a vegan chat thread, I would deem that a bit attention-seeking of me. But that’s just me🤷‍♀️

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ElephantOfRisk · 09/07/2021 13:16

@Bytheloch

Why would you waste your time posting on a thread that doesn’t align with your views?

Enough is enough on here. No judgement, no covid denial. No amount of fucks given anymore to those that like to rant from their own tartan ivory towers with the aim of blowing up threads, it’s really quite a dated technique, btw. Enough is enough.

I'll take a leaf out of Nicola's book for once. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
forfucksakenett · 09/07/2021 13:34

Thanks for your input guys but I'll post where and when I please on a public chat forum. Particularly when, at the point of posting, there was an actual bit of toing and froing going on and it wasn't all 'vegan recipes' to use your analogy.

I think that policing threads is a fair bit more attention seeking than merely participating in a conversation but like you say, maybe that's just me 🤷🏻‍♀️

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 09/07/2021 13:35

This 'following the science' chat is one of my biggest bugbears. It's impossible to follow the the science because there is no one 'science' - there are scientists with differing experiences, preconceived ideas and sometimes political agendas, interpreting data in different ways and coming to (often) different conclusions. These might, and should, evolve as new data comes to light. The great Barrington people are 'following the science' just as much as the 'zero COVID' people and everyone in between. I really hate that this pandemic has promoted the idea of right think, squashed normal, healthy scientific discourse in the name of 'clear messaging', and demonised anyone who happens to go off script.

forfucksakenett · 09/07/2021 13:37

Absolutely @Y0uCann0tBeSer10us which is why I choose to follow the advice of scientists that I trust and respect weighing it a up as best as I (a non scientist) can.

WouldBeGood · 09/07/2021 14:03

I’m a convert and am now following the science as assessed by @forfucksakenett

ResilienceWanker · 09/07/2021 14:17

@forfucksakenett

I choose to follow the opinions of scientists and medical professionals who I trust and respect. I couldn't give a shit what anyone else does. I don't judge non mask wearers because I don't waste my time wondering why they aren't wearing one.

I'm less tolerant of covid deniers because I think they are a bit stupid conspiracy theory types who watch Ivor Cummings videos abs what not. I appreciate that's not very nice but I can't help it. 🤷🏻‍♀️

My rationale for wearing the mask is the belief that if I have it I would like to minimise the chances of passing it on. Same with the LFTs which I know are also deeply flawed. I don't see why that is such a problem for people to be honest. It's not a moral crusade, it's a personal choice. It's the same principle when you wash your hands in a public toilet. Protect yourself and protect others by using your clean hands to touch doors and what not.

Yes - I don't think my opinions are that far from your's forfucksake - but saying "I choose to follow the opinions of scientists and medical professionals who I trust and respect" implies that those who have a different view are not following the scientific/ medical advice or (worse Grin) are following views of people you don't trust or respect and are therefore thick as mince. So going on to say you don't judge non-mask wearers then seems a bit shallow. You may not judge them morally, but you do judge them to be not "following the opinions of scientists who you trust and respect" - and people make their own (possibly wildly projecting/ inaccurate) interpretations of your view of them from that statement.

I appreciate I am probably reading too much into it, but it does seem to imply that you consider only one interpretation of "the science" to be valid (and it just so happens that all the scientists who you trust and respect have that view too). Obviously very few (probably none!) scientific studies say masks are worthless - but many say they are not 100% effective in a clinical situation and less so in the community, and that cloth face coverings are really not effective at preventing anything other than large droplets from infected people (albeit those are the ones with the most virus) and not effective at all at stopping people breathing them in.

So people may decide that the stress/ discomfort to them of wearing a mask, isn't outweighed by that marginal benefit to them or indeed other people. Other people, including you, weigh up that differently, possibly because you experience less stress to you, or because you put more weight on the benefit to others or yourself, or because you're feeling a bit under the weather on that day so the potential risk to others is increased.

Everyone's personal situations are different - but that doesn't imply that they are covid deniers, or don't care about passing it on, or "follow the wrong science/ scientists" or don't wash their hands after using the toilet. And if someone perfectly following the guidance on mask wearing/ LFTs etc still ends up "passing it on" - is that their failing? Should they have worn a mask more, or better, or taken just one more LFT that could have been positive that time...or just not gone out at all, just in case? Surely that way madness lies! (I confess I may be a bit triggered by this last assumption...I did everything "right" and still ended up waddling around a city on holiday, potentially "passing it on" to all and sundry, even wearing masks and following negative LFTs - because - shock horror - I didn't know I was brewing it. Presumably I should have stayed at home if i really gave a toss about not spreading it...)

forfucksakenett · 09/07/2021 14:35

@ResilienceWanker I take your point completely but I'm not sure how else to express it. If I see someone not wearing a mask I don't really think anything, and certainly nothing judgemental, because I realise there are so many reasons as to why that person may not be wearing a mask and really it's none of my business.

I think there is room to recognise that people may have a different opinion to you and for one be able to reject those opinions without thinking that they are thick as mince. Professionally and personally there have been numerous occasions where I have disagreed with a person (about topics I actually do know about) without questioning their intelligence.

Nothing is black and white. There is room for multiple opposing viewpoints and I don't think that me weighing up the evidence I see and making a choice implies a feeling of superiority against other. It's just a different choice. And if it does mean that then surely we are all guilty of it? If I buy an Audi rather than Ford after researching what's best for my needs am I suggesting that Ford owners with similar circumstances to me have made the wrong choice? No, not at all.

That being said, there are certain self proclaimed experts who I have and do continue to feel a bit judgemental of, Ivor Cummins and his band of conspiracy theorist followers, for example.

forfucksakenett · 09/07/2021 14:36

And my covid denier comment was in relation to a posters specific comment. I don't think not wearing a mask makes you a covid denier.

ResilienceWanker · 09/07/2021 14:51

Nothing is black and white. There is room for multiple opposing viewpoints and I don't think that me weighing up the evidence I see and making a choice implies a feeling of superiority against other. It's just a different choice. And if it does mean that then surely we are all guilty of it? If I buy an Audi rather than Ford after researching what's best for my needs am I suggesting that Ford owners with similar circumstances to me have made the wrong choice? No, not at all.

Yes - this is how I think things should be! It just seems so difficult to reach this kind of understanding on covid stuff - presumably because there is an underlying current of "well, if you have made the wrong choice, you could actually be hurting someone". Using your car analogy, presumably equivalent to someone saying "well, both of you are wrong, and anyone who doesn't drive a volvo doesn't give a toss about safety and may as well just run amok through the asda carpark with a machete".

Bytheloch · 09/07/2021 14:53

I don't think not wearing a mask makes you a covid denier

As long as it’s clear in your own mindConfused

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forfucksakenett · 09/07/2021 14:54

@Bytheloch

I don't think not wearing a mask makes you a covid denier

As long as it’s clear in your own mindConfused

Very clear thank you.
Bytheloch · 09/07/2021 16:12

Anyway, back on topic...

Enough is enough. Lots of like minded chat across Twitter under #EnoughisEnough in case anyone is feeling like they’re alone in their thinking.

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ssd · 09/07/2021 17:36

Blimey, its like the cult of enough is enough Grin

ssd · 09/07/2021 17:38

Maybe thats why i dont bother with twitter etc, i cant be arsed with one sided opinion.
"Agree with me or stay off thread" seems to be the mantra here.

Bytheloch · 09/07/2021 17:50

Twitter is not one sided, quite the contrary.
Nobody is saying you have to agree, but more a polite request that if you agree that enough is enough (cultGrin) you can vent on here and find like minded folk to talk to. The thread didn’t pose a question and it’s not an AIBU, so it’s not difficult to understand its purpose.

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WouldBeGood · 09/07/2021 18:23

Twitter is full of people screeching to be locked up and masked 😃

ssd · 09/07/2021 19:12

@Bytheloch, fair enough. I usually learn something on mn when I'm disagreeing with someone, but I'm not learning much here. But it is interesting hearing others views.
I'm finding scotsnet very one sided these days. Or maybe there's just certain posters who are all over this. Or maybe there's a certain demograph posting on scotsnet i don't find in rl so much. My friends are all mixed and i like mn as it seems similar. But I'm finding scotsnet less so. Maybe there's just less of us here.
Still, you've found your tribe here so enjoy.

Whycangirlsbesonasty · 09/07/2021 19:17

I am probably going to try not to get it or not let my kids get it, purely as a friend has ME and I don’t fancy long Covid - is seems similarly horrendous. I do wish we had a reputable scientist in Scotland to follow but we just dont. Devi and Linda B seem thick and thieves, and Devi undermines everything she says with her politics.

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