Nicola Sturgeon

[Iluvfriends]

Is a hypocrite.

Boris will be 'picking a fight with the democratic wishes of the Scottish people' and ' the only people that can decide the future of Scotland are the Scottish people'

Forgive me if i'm being stupid but didn't we already have a vote on independence, how did that go. Oh that's right......not how NS wanted so she ignores the democratic wishes of the Scottish people and pushes for Indy 2.

Laughable how she comes out with this stuff.

@Scottishskifun What jumps out at me there is the following: "Figures for corporation tax for recent years are provisional. They are subject to change in the future when payments originally made in respect of a group of companies are subsequently re-allocated to individual companies within the group. The corporation tax estimates include mainstream tax and the Advance Corporation Tax (ACT) set-off against the tax charged. The ACT set-off is estimated because the dividends attributable to UK oil and gas cannot be separately identified from other dividends. The level of corporation tax receipts in 1993/94 reflected low liabilities in 1992 (paid in the following financial year) and repayment resulting from lower settlements for earlier years.
The supplementary charge in respect of ring fence trades was introduced from 17 April 2002; the rate was increased from 10 to 20 per cent with effect from 1 January 2006 and to 32 per cent with effect from 24 March 2011; it was reduced to 20 per cent with effect from 1 January 2015 and to 10 per cent with effect from 1 January 2016. For recent years, the split between RFCT and SC shown above is illustrative.
The gas levy was introduced in 1981 to capture the rent accruing to the nationalised British Gas Corporation from purchasing PRT-exempt gas under long term contracts signed before the general rise in gas prices. It was abolished with effect from 1 April 1998. The yield from gas levy is not included in total Government revenues because it is categorised as a tax on expenditure rather than on income from oil and gas production."

[quote Nyx]@Graffitiqueen, you tell me the figures that show Scotland won't be successful? Give me all of the figures that you have been demanding of Yessers, if you are so wonderfully au fait with all the facts. I'd love to know where you get your crystal ball, btw.

Nobody in Scotland knows the true figures of the tax take on our fish, alcohol, oil and gas - as all of this is kept under wraps at Westminster. All we get are estimates. Give us the figures, then we would be able to do some real sums.[/quote]
@Nyx if you /we do not know these figures, how can you, or anyone, possibly be putting forward an economic case for independence?

[quote Nyx]@Graffitiqueen, you tell me the figures that show Scotland won't be successful? Give me all of the figures that you have been demanding of Yessers, if you are so wonderfully au fait with all the facts. I'd love to know where you get your crystal ball, btw.

Nobody in Scotland knows the true figures of the tax take on our fish, alcohol, oil and gas - as all of this is kept under wraps at Westminster. All we get are estimates. Give us the figures, then we would be able to do some real sums.[/quote]
@Nyx if you /we do not know these figures, how can you, or anyone, possibly be putting forward an economic case for independence?

I don’t think so!

@WouldBeGood The fact that we don't have the proper figures for the tax take on our own major industries is one of the main reasons I think Scotland needs to be independent.

We know that the WM government deliberately withheld the figures showing how rich Scotland would be with North Sea oil (McCrone Report). Why don't we have full access to all the books now? It certainly isn't because they show Scotland is or would be an economic basket case. If that were the case it would be shoved down our throats at every opportunity.

Ok @Nyx, so you’re happy to go for independence without knowing the figures?

[quote Nyx]@WouldBeGood The fact that we don't have the proper figures for the tax take on our own major industries is one of the main reasons I think Scotland needs to be independent.

We know that the WM government deliberately withheld the figures showing how rich Scotland would be with North Sea oil (McCrone Report). Why don't we have full access to all the books now? It certainly isn't because they show Scotland is or would be an economic basket case. If that were the case it would be shoved down our throats at every opportunity.[/quote]
This is my view also.

Unionists demanding every last penny accounted for before independence are aware that it's not possible to do that.

Yes I would advocate just doing it.

Mm.. there’s a big difference between asking for every last penny to be accounted for and knowing that a course of action is economically viable.

But I see the gulf now. Nothing I’m worried about affects the ideologically committed. So at least I know that now as opposed to trying to find out the economic case for Indy.

Without independence we will never know the true figures.

As I've said many times, a country needs certain things to get by. Scotland has all of them and more. Industries, exports, resources, educated people. In my view there is no reason Scotland wouldn't do well. Tell me why we would fail?

[quote Nyx]@WouldBeGood The fact that we don't have the proper figures for the tax take on our own major industries is one of the main reasons I think Scotland needs to be independent.

We know that the WM government deliberately withheld the figures showing how rich Scotland would be with North Sea oil (McCrone Report). Why don't we have full access to all the books now? It certainly isn't because they show Scotland is or would be an economic basket case. If that were the case it would be shoved down our throats at every opportunity.[/quote]
North Sea is massively in decline though and tax revenue has fallen off a cliff with it! About 50% of gas production is Scotland other half is England! Its also pretty silly to base a countries income basis on a massively declining very old basin when UK has targets to phase out fossil fuel production and Scottish govt target is even greater!

I for one am not prepared to gamble my children's future on a leap of faith into the unknown. Especially not now that we've seen how hard the Brexit negotiations were, the border issues that are still not absolutely resolved on the island of Ireland, and the reports tackling the issue which suggest it will be very difficult, at least for several years. But then I think we're doing pretty well being in the UK, and I think we already have sufficient powers.

To be fair to Sturgeon, I think she recognises full well that the ideological 'we'll be alright, just go for it' vote won't be enough to win a referendum, and I think there will be another attempt at a Growth Commission before she pulls the trigger. No point rushing in and being impulsive, only to see it fail again. She's too smart for that.

"We know that the WM government deliberately withheld the figures showing how rich Scotland would be with North Sea oil (McCrone Report). Why don't we have full access to all the books now? It certainly isn't because they show Scotland is or would be an economic basket case. If that were the case it would be shoved down our throats at every opportunity."

The point isn't that Scotland can use oil revenue though. It's that Scotland is richer than WM are allowing us to know.

So, we have secret riches that Westminster knows about but the SG doesn't, but Westminster is hiding them from us, is that it? And us getting more back from the UK than we put in just now (and for a few years now) because our fiscal position is weaker is just part of the deception to hide our riches from us I suppose?

A PP said as an English person living is Scotland they're not looking forward to it all, I can say as a Scottish person living in Scotland neither am I.
The last one was awful, it caused so many divisions and really turned friends against each other.
I for one just wish she gets her election and hopefully loses again but to be honest the result means nothing as has been proven by the last one. The Yes vote got beat but they just can't accept it and have went on endlessly to have another one, and this was before Brexit so they can't use that as an excuse. They've been bad losers since the day of the last vote

Ah secret riches time. Farcical.

Scottishskifun, agree about the dichotomy basing any future plans around fossil fuels. Was wondering how the Greens square their support for SNP and Independence with the seeming reliance on oil and gas. Mind you, these days it appears the last thing the Greens are at all bothered about is the environment.

@Calyx72

"We know that the WM government deliberately withheld the figures showing how rich Scotland would be with North Sea oil (McCrone Report). Why don't we have full access to all the books now? It certainly isn't because they show Scotland is or would be an economic basket case. If that were the case it would be shoved down our throats at every opportunity."

The point isn't that Scotland can use oil revenue though. It's that Scotland is richer than WM are allowing us to know.

Oil and gas figures each year aren't hidden though and it's farsical to suggest otherwise or this is somehow hidden from the SG! People just have to be bothered to go find out the information for themselves rather then being spoon fed it. There is plenty of info on how much they think is left, production levels etc its not some sort of conspiracy theory!

SG is also well aware of it given their own govt dept are involved in the consultation process!

😂 I find it hilarious the very suggestion that somehow WM hides this all from the SG! Clearly people making these statements have zero clue of what the industry or consultation process is!

Also the Mcrone report was based in the 1974......so your basing statements on something 47 years ago............

Oh dear, this is just embarrassing. Secret riches. The only way to find out our secret riches is to become independent so let’s “just do it”. Right then. Independence at any cost.

@doorornottodoor

Oh dear, this is just embarrassing. Secret riches. The only way to find out our secret riches is to become independent so let’s “just do it”. Right then. Independence at any cost.

It just beggars belief doesn't it?!?!!

Talking of conspiracy theory nutters I see Wings has totally spat the dummy and flounced from his own blog. Shame! 😂😂

[quote Graffitiqueen]@StarryEyeSurprise I'm sure you are as keen as I am for people to have accurate information before voting on something that may have a huge impact on their future financial security and wellbeing. Can you please address this post and admit that your reply here is not how Scotland covers it's deficit or will in a future Indy Scotland.[/quote]
I was at work. You really are strange. I'm not going over this again.

I may be strange but at least I have a grasp of how MMT and QE works.

@Nyx
Scotland has all of them and more. Industries, exports, resources, educated people.
What industries? Education is at a very low level internationally, exports whisky and salmon (but the US tax whisky more now I think), Respurces? We are sticking up lots of windfarms but profits must go to China and Europe who build them. And they do result in industrialisation of our hillsides. There are another 400 in the pipeline for the SW, bye bye tourism - why cant they go offshore like other countries?

I think this thread has been really helpful.

I now know that some people just really want independence, and that there’s no actual plan for it beyond that.

Saves me trying to understand more.

Cheers