Nicola Sturgeon

[Iluvfriends]

Is a hypocrite.

Boris will be 'picking a fight with the democratic wishes of the Scottish people' and ' the only people that can decide the future of Scotland are the Scottish people'

Forgive me if i'm being stupid but didn't we already have a vote on independence, how did that go. Oh that's right......not how NS wanted so she ignores the democratic wishes of the Scottish people and pushes for Indy 2.

Laughable how she comes out with this stuff.

A Yes/No question has inherent bias.

Exactly, people subconsciously want to go for the 'positive' choice, as shown by what happens to the polls when you word the question differently. This is why the electoral commission used the wording leave/remain in the EU one, and why they should get to approve the question in any future Indyref.

The confusion argument is a bit ridiculous to me. Does anyone really want major constitutional change to be enacted on the votes of people so intellectually deficient that they didn't even understand the question let alone all the implications of that choice?! If the argument/desire for Independence is so strong, a neutral question shouldn't stand in the way of that.

@Nyx

Stop trying to conflate Brexit and Scottish independence.

But I thought Brexit was the "material change" that meant that's why we need to go through all this again?

@Nyx

Stop trying to conflate Brexit and Scottish independence.

Similar mentality, Brexit and Independence.

Nationalistic, flag waving, blaming foreigners for all the ills, promising milk and honey after freedom from the “shackles” with no actual practical or economic plan.

Blah, blah, blah...just ongoing division, anglophobia, failures, etc.

I’m still so angry that folk have been so easily duped and now the rest of us have to suffer at least another 5 years of this shit.

@Nyx

I meant you as in unionists. So you personally haven't mentioned partition (yet!); but gerrymandering as in messing with the wording of the vote. Arguing against democracy as in saying although pro indy parties have by far the most seats, you are counting individual votes.

I never said I was a Unionist. I actually don't have any issue with independence per se. I have an issue with the SNP and the timing and the attempts to deny people the truth though.

But you seem to think you know what I am going to post late and i was responding to a response where I think someone suggested that indy had a bigger vote share, which they don't.

So, the question used for Brexit was:

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

So changing that to:

Should Scotland remain a part of the United Kingdom or leave the United Kingdom?

Would be too confusing?

@ElephantOfRisk

So, the question used for Brexit was:

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

So changing that to:

Should Scotland remain a part of the United Kingdom or leave the United Kingdom?

Would be too confusing?

Leave/Remain is associated with the EU referendum.

Yes/No is associated with independence referendum.

It was acceptable last time and since the same question is being asked there's no reason for it to not be used again.

Also, if Yes is positive and people more likely to vote for the most positive word, why did Yes lose last time?

Also, if Yes is positive and people more likely to vote for the most positive word, why did Yes lose last time?

Is this a serious question? People being more likely to vote for something than they otherwise would doesn't mean they should have won. It implies they ist likely would have lost by a bigger margin had the question not been loaded towards the nationalist point of view.

@Bytheloch

Blah, blah, blah...just ongoing division, anglophobia, failures, etc.

I’m still so angry that folk have been so easily duped and now the rest of us have to suffer at least another 5 years of this shit.

I'm totally furious as well. It's clear that there's very little understanding of the financial consequences of separation and people just trot out stuff they've read on twitter that they have done no critical thinking about. A lot of dunning-kruger going on too.

If there is a yes vote the SNP will have some difficult questions to answer with all the misinformation they have put out.

Also, if Yes is positive and people more likely to vote for the most positive word, why did Yes lose last time?

Because despite the bias people still didn't want to vote for it.

Just because that's the way the question was asked before doesn't mean to say it can't be changed to something more neutral does it?

Is this a serious question

Heavens no. I'm just having a laugh on here and equaling out the general union bollocks that's coming from those who think what they say is in any way filled with sense.

I hope Scotland gains independence just to see union supporters implode with the sheer horror of it.

@StarryEyeSurprise I'm sure you are as keen as I am for people to have accurate information before voting on something that may have a huge impact on their future financial security and wellbeing. Can you please address this post and admit that your reply here is not how Scotland covers it's deficit or will in a future Indy Scotland.

given I'm sure you'll have done some reading today and realised you have made a fundamental error on how QE works.

I hope Scotland gains independence just to see union supporters implode with the sheer horror of it.

Yes because a decade or more of austerity will be such a hoot.

You are aware that our current financial situation is not looking good within the Union, out of the EU against our will, with a Conservative government that we (as a country) have not for years, do not currently and will not vote for, pushed on us anyway?

We have had years and years of unnecessary and useless austerity forced on us. I see no hope for improvement, none. Except for independence for Scotland. That is the only ray of hope I see.

I am far happier to tighten my belt if it is at the start of a journey to something better. Scotland could be very successful as an independent country - yes, it would be difficult at first but there would be something to aspire to.

Unionists seem to think we would leave the UK with nothing if we did separate. We would have a share of all the resources currently held centrally. The GERS figures do should a current deficit for Scotland (has not always been the case) but there are only 4 areas in the UK that are doing better. Scotland can only do better if we can achieve control of our own amazing natural resources.

@Nyx

You are aware that our current financial situation is not looking good within the Union, out of the EU against our will, with a Conservative government that we (as a country) have not for years, do not currently and will not vote for, pushed on us anyway?

We have had years and years of unnecessary and useless austerity forced on us. I see no hope for improvement, none. Except for independence for Scotland. That is the only ray of hope I see.

I am far happier to tighten my belt if it is at the start of a journey to something better. Scotland could be very successful as an independent country - yes, it would be difficult at first but there would be something to aspire to.

So you haven't read the growth commission then? A vote for independence is a vote for austerity for a decade to 25 years. It's there in black and white in the SNP's blue print for an Indy Scotland and that's before the effects of Covid which have given us a much greater deficit.

@Newstepchild

Unionists seem to think we would leave the UK with nothing if we did separate. We would have a share of all the resources currently held centrally. The GERS figures do should a current deficit for Scotland (has not always been the case) but there are only 4 areas in the UK that are doing better. Scotland can only do better if we can achieve control of our own amazing natural resources.

I think it's been made starkly clear on this thread that the unionist posters have a far sounder grasp of the financial position than the yes supporters.

So you haven't read the growth commission then? A vote for independence is a vote for austerity for a decade to 25 years. It's there in black and white in the SNP's blue print for an Indy Scotland and that's before the effects of Covid which have given us a much greater deficit.

I think the Growth Commission report is generally considered out of date now, and the financial situation looks even worse than it did back then. Tax receipts have been lower than expected for instance, and that's before considering the economic damage caused by COVID restrictions etc.

Having said that, I do actually have some respect for the view that things will be very hard in the short/medium term but may be worth it in the long term. I don't agree with it personally, because I don't think Scotland is particularly hard done by in the UK, and I've been glad we are in the UK over the past year and therefore had the 'broad shoulders' of one of the largest economies to provide furlough and a vaccine programme (we wouldn't have been able to borrow on such favourable terms as a smaller, weaker economy). But, at least that point of view is an eyes open one, rather than the rose-tinted view that we are rich (with assets and no debts apparently) and will somehow continue to provide massive public expenditure without raising taxes through the roof.

@Graffitiqueen, you tell me the figures that show Scotland won't be successful? Give me all of the figures that you have been demanding of Yessers, if you are so wonderfully au fait with all the facts. I'd love to know where you get your crystal ball, btw.

Nobody in Scotland knows the true figures of the tax take on our fish, alcohol, oil and gas - as all of this is kept under wraps at Westminster. All we get are estimates. Give us the figures, then we would be able to do some real sums.

The usual trite SNP phrases abound. Out against whose will? The people of the UK voted for it. I didn't, nor did I vote for a Tory government, nor did I vote for a SNP parliament, but that is democracy that apparently I'm arguing against.

You do know that the UK was a net contributor to the EU? We give them money and then they give some back. Now that gap in the budget might be for things that people believe are worth paying for and for others it wasn't. It seems that despite the lack of group negotiations for trade deals, the UK seems to be doing pretty well.

Westminster on at least 2 occasions has passed extra funding for the NHS to Scotgov and it has been spent on something else, money given for Covid relief salted away for election give-aways.

I don’t think so!

@Nyx I suggest that you do more reading before making sweeping statements that figures for oil and gas taxation aren't known..... 🙄

Suggest you start with the OGA website.....

www.ogauthority.co.uk/exploration-production/taxation/government-revenues-from-uk-oil-and-gas-production/

@Nyx I suggest that you do more reading before making sweeping statements that figures for oil and gas taxation aren't known..... 🙄

Suggest you start with the OGA website.....

www.ogauthority.co.uk/exploration-production/taxation/government-revenues-from-uk-oil-and-gas-production/

[quote Nyx]@Graffitiqueen, you tell me the figures that show Scotland won't be successful? Give me all of the figures that you have been demanding of Yessers, if you are so wonderfully au fait with all the facts. I'd love to know where you get your crystal ball, btw.

Nobody in Scotland knows the true figures of the tax take on our fish, alcohol, oil and gas - as all of this is kept under wraps at Westminster. All we get are estimates. Give us the figures, then we would be able to do some real sums.[/quote]
@Nyx if you /we do not know these figures, how can you, or anyone, possibly be putting forward an economic case for independence?

This is what I just don’t get.