Feel depressed about the future

[Hobnob39]

The election results have made me feel really bluuuuerrgh.
I HATED the divisiveness of indyref1, I don't want another referendum. I want our government to do a better day job, but independence is going to be the focus until it happens now isn't it? I don't want independence for the same reasons I didn't want Brexit - I feel we shouldn't be dividing ourselves off into ever smaller parochial wee groups who all think we are somehow better than everyone else. It's enough to make me want to move... my DH is English and he wants to, but I have resisted, but it's getting harder to explain why. The only problem I have though is that I see the results in England and feel they as bad - I don't understand why people who are shafted by the Tory party are the ones voting for them! I just do know where I belong now. It feels to me that Scotland is stuck with SNP and England stuck with Tory, and I'm adrift as I don't feel either represent me. Anyone else?

@Quincie I'm not sure why you'd say that. I have actually said upthread that I can see why Scottish Indy could be attractive to some, but it's not for me...I do admit to being baffled by the increase in support for the Tory party in the North of England though...this sums up why I find that confusing.

ffs unless we're are taking on all our existing public sector and state pension obligations (we weren't last I checked) we will not be fully Independent "just like any other country". And that is just the first of many such entanglements which came to mind.

Have to agree with Matt Forde. It's like the currency question. They don't answer because there is no answer that doesn't come with significant downsides.

We all Know if there was a good economic case they'd be shouting it from the rooftops.

@forfucksakenett

I think that's probably just as well because that's not exactly what you said in your last post. As you say we're not going to get anywhere with it.

Actually everything I have said has been consistent but, whatever. Bye.

@forfucksakenett this is just ludicrous. Financial planning is essential.

It’s always impossible to get any figures or concrete plans on this. Yet they ask people to vote 🤷🏻‍♀️

It’s just jumping off a cliff going “la la la!

Okay i'll bite.

You said:

The people you are talking about are thugs. Pure and simple. They don't influence anyone. They just make people hate them.

I pointed out that it was far from simple and that these people were as influential as the next person and lots of people not only didn't hate them but actually looked up to them.

You then said that you didn't deny any of that.

I would say that's pretty inconsistent.

Where did I say there was no financial planning?

I live in London, so I feel like we are a little enclave of sanity here, but the rest of England feels like it’s totally fucked, I hear you.

I don’t know what the answer is to be honest.

@forfucksakenett

Where did I say there was no financial planning?

You said there was no point in them telling us.

Extraordinary view to take.

Bleak does not even begin to cover it, take a look at yourself, I really think some people need to educate themselves on the financial realities.

Covid could not have come at a worse time for NS, and brexit has now happened, and the idea the EU will be offering salvation to a bankrupt Scotland without a currency is rather ambitious to put it mildly.

And how exactly will exchanging London for Brussels without the benefit of the money from Brussels (In fact you have to pay to be in the EU and it is many many millions) help the Scottish feel any better?? They will be just be a very poor and overlooked EU member best case, or declined before they have even started the process.

So the situation is very bleak for independence, it is beyond me how NS has even managed to convince anyone of its merits. I am sure it is just tactical to squeeze my money out of London, because no one in the right mind would vote independence in the current climate unless they were very misinformed or haven't looked at the detail.

Like targeting me as an individual in several posts, then why I questioned why, you said it was me. Strange form of consistency. I too find that odd.

Take a look FOR yourself, not at yourself

@Graffitiqueen

Have to agree with Matt Forde. It's like the currency question. They don't answer because there is no answer that doesn't come with significant downsides.

We all Know if there was a good economic case they'd be shouting it from the rooftops.

I'll make it very simple. Pound until new currency is put in place. Around four years.

@Lidlfix

Like targeting me as an individual in several posts, then why I questioned why, you said it was me. Strange form of consistency. I too find that odd.

Read back through the posts. You posted. I replied. You thought my reference to 'going on about' was targeted at you in particular. I explained it was ' you' plural as was part of a conversation with others, so not directed at you singular. You then replied making it about you. I explained, again, that it was part of a conversation with others and I thought you understood that. But you keep going on about me targeting you. I am not targeting you. You keep talking to me saying I am doing things which I keep explaining I am not. If anything you are targeting me.

I don't know why you want to keep believing I am targeting you no matter how many times I explain I am not. Go ahead if you want to though. Its a free world.

I'm going to apply for a mortgage in about 2 and a half years. I've written to the broker now with my budget for now. That makes sense eh? @WouldBeGood

@SteveArnottsCodeine

I live in London, so I feel like we are a little enclave of sanity here, but the rest of England feels like it’s totally fucked, I hear you.

I don’t know what the answer is to be honest.

Love the username!

@forfucksakenett

Okay i'll bite.

You said:

The people you are talking about are thugs. Pure and simple. They don't influence anyone. They just make people hate them.

I pointed out that it was far from simple and that these people were as influential as the next person and lots of people not only didn't hate them but actually looked up to them.

You then said that you didn't deny any of that.

I would say that's pretty inconsistent.

Look, you gave examples of people doing nazi salutes. Lets be honest, people influenced by that were seriously lost causes a long time ago. And as you said yourself, that was done AFTER the referendum took place. Likewise with one individual calling another a 'fenian cunt'. Of the doubtless small number of people who overheard that how many do you think thought ' actually, yeah, never thought of it before but I'm totally down with that!' And how many do you think thought,' 'he's a stupid wanker'?

For all your focussing on that, and I have answered you, you have not answered the points I have made about how seeing politicians and others chased off the street by aggressive mobs or silenced by aggressive mobs is a deliberate and aggressive attempt to frighten people into not expressing their views in a democracy and to stop a legitimate democratic debate? Its deeply anti-democratic to intimidate the opposition. To get to a stage of telling people you want to drown them for their political beliefs and for that to go unchallenged! I heard no stories of Yes politicians being chased from the streets. None.

Why are you so unwillling to condemn all of that?

There is zero appetite in the rest of the UK for any more divisive refs after the last six years of wrangling. So if Scotland vote to leave, then it is fine with us. I doubt very much we lend our pound though, they will leave with eye watering debt and have to try and raise their own currency with the markets, which will not be easy and the SNP know it. It will cost a lot, because they won't have the credit rating to access large sums of liquidity. So for decades Scotland will struggle financially, and their standard of living with plummet. The border will become a real bone of contention and as Scotland remains on England, I can't see the goodwill being there for Scottish products or tourism, not for a very long time.

So yes, if they want this so much they are willing to sacrifice anything for it, go ahead they have my blessing. I am not going to fight over it any longer though. I feel deeply sorry for the all of the scots that are unionists and love being part of the UK, for them it will be a disaster and Scotland will remain divided both inside and outside for generations to come. Ask the islands how they feel about independence, maybe they will stay part of the UK or also become independent.... It will be pandora's box.

**relies

Some of the examples given of yes thuggery were also post referendum. All of which I have actually condemned if you've read the thread.

Surely anyone behaving in a thuggish way isn't influential but is instead just a stupid wanker going by most folks reckoning.

Why are the yes thugs influential and intimidating but the no thugs, by your reckoning, just stupid and dismissed?

Bizarre.

@Youarecountingonme

There is zero appetite in the rest of the UK for any more divisive refs after the last six years of wrangling. So if Scotland vote to leave, then it is fine with us. I doubt very much we lend our pound though, they will leave with eye watering debt and have to try and raise their own currency with the markets, which will not be easy and the SNP know it. It will cost a lot, because they won't have the credit rating to access large sums of liquidity. So for decades Scotland will struggle financially, and their standard of living with plummet. The border will become a real bone of contention and as Scotland remains on England, I can't see the goodwill being there for Scottish products or tourism, not for a very long time.

So yes, if they want this so much they are willing to sacrifice anything for it, go ahead they have my blessing. I am not going to fight over it any longer though. I feel deeply sorry for the all of the scots that are unionists and love being part of the UK, for them it will be a disaster and Scotland will remain divided both inside and outside for generations to come. Ask the islands how they feel about independence, maybe they will stay part of the UK or also become independent.... It will be pandora's box.

It's. It just your pound though is it?

Division and thuggery for years perhaps decades and decades to come, yeh great, can't wait

Simple. How apt a word to use. 🙄

Feel the exact same as you OP would not vote Tory but against separating from the UK. I am crossing everything that our work moves to allow permanent wfh post Covid so we can move. I will really miss my family and don’t really want to move but I don’t want us as a family to run the financial risk of independence. Worst fear is ending up in negative equity and then losing our jobs on top of that. Plus DH is English and do not want my children subjected to any increase in anti English rhetoric. Won’t be able to move for a few years but it’s in the back of my mind it probably has to happen now.

Bit brave hoping for a UK currency denominated mortgage on a newly post Indy Scotland house.