Feel depressed about the future

[Hobnob39]

The election results have made me feel really bluuuuerrgh.
I HATED the divisiveness of indyref1, I don't want another referendum. I want our government to do a better day job, but independence is going to be the focus until it happens now isn't it? I don't want independence for the same reasons I didn't want Brexit - I feel we shouldn't be dividing ourselves off into ever smaller parochial wee groups who all think we are somehow better than everyone else. It's enough to make me want to move... my DH is English and he wants to, but I have resisted, but it's getting harder to explain why. The only problem I have though is that I see the results in England and feel they as bad - I don't understand why people who are shafted by the Tory party are the ones voting for them! I just do know where I belong now. It feels to me that Scotland is stuck with SNP and England stuck with Tory, and I'm adrift as I don't feel either represent me. Anyone else?

@forfucksakenett so you personally don’t plan ahead financially.

A massive constitutional change is more akin to retirement than getting a mortgage and requires substantial financial planning.

And, as you agree that they have done the figures, why don’t they tell us?

I get a projection every year as to what my pension would be, and I’d find it quite odd if the provider refused to tell me, or told me they hadn’t worked it out yet, but they will do at some pint in the future.

“ I heard no stories of Yes politicians being chased from the streets. None.”

There were lots of videos of them getting abused - I saw about as many as I did for no politicians tbh, just it never made it on the news. I don’t know why? Maybe press were only at certain events?

But you not seeing things doesn’t mean they didn’t happen, it just means you didn’t see them.

Both sides had some horrendous behaviour going on, seriously undemocratic stuff.

I think you will find the UK will keep it's pound, as Sturgeon has already confirmed. She said Scotland will raise its own currency, the only problem with that is it is extremely expensive, Scotland will not have a credit rating, so effectively it will have a junk rating so you will pay through the nose for all finance, effectively ensuring that along with the debts, Scotland will be in financial dire straits for generations perhaps indefinitely, not a few years.

Anyone that knows anything about markets and liquidity will tell you that Scotland will not be a good bet. It has very high debts compared to GDP and this will only get worse with the split.

Up to you, your poor kids will inherit a financial disaster, and one that could last indefinitely. SNP are yet to be honest about this.

[quote WouldBeGood]@forfucksakenett so you personally don’t plan ahead financially.

A massive constitutional change is more akin to retirement than getting a mortgage and requires substantial financial planning.

And, as you agree that they have done the figures, why don’t they tell us?

I get a projection every year as to what my pension would be, and I’d find it quite odd if the provider refused to tell me, or told me they hadn’t worked it out yet, but they will do at some pint in the future.[/quote]
Of course I do but as appropriate.

www.ft.com/content/ff6c0f6b-2d65-4a4e-bbba-878e2260cf3e

The FT offers a very comprehensive explanation.

Of course Scotland will have a credit rating! In '14 S and P said AA if my memory serves me well.

"The nightmare scenario is a fiscal plan that lacks credibility, issued in a currency that lacks credibility, on top of a relatively large stock of existing debt and coming at a time in the future when global yields are much higher"

It will cost billions to set up a currency. Probably hundreds of billions.

Where is this money coming from?

@StarryEyeSurprise

Of course Scotland will have a credit rating! In '14 S and P said AA if my memory serves me well.

🙄 you keep trotting this out. Yet you've been shown that that's no longer valid.

www.investmentweek.co.uk/investment-week/news/3006760/moodys-warns-scotland-exit-leave-country-facing-junk-rating

No Starry a new currency would not be able to hjack the UK credit rating, Scotland would effectively need to start again.

Given the high debt ratios and the difficulty Scotland will no doubt face on multiple different levels this is going to be a really rough ride to say the least.

Read the FT link. The cost of oil has sunk, the GDP and covid debt has piled up since the report, not to mention the other issues. So yes Scotland's position has definitely become much worse.

It’s also clear from the leader’s debate that NS doesn’t understand concepts like quantitative easing, which is worrying.

And has no clue what currency we’d use.

I wish Scotland well, my dh is of Scottish descent and he is very pissed off too op. He finds it all so pointless. Like starting a fight in a pub, and then hoping someone else will pay for the repairs.
I am betting on the sensible intelligence of the majority, when it comes really comes to it. I trust Scotland, I love Scotland, it will be fine.

@WouldBeGood

It’s also clear from the leader’s debate that NS doesn’t understand concepts like quantitative easing, which is worrying.

And has no clue what currency we’d use.

She didn't even understand the question and had to pretend she was having microphone issues!! 🤔

In fact. @StarryEyeSurprise as our resident economics expert could you answer the question Nicola failed to regarding quantitative easing under sterlingisation please?

@forfucksakenett

Howling that me wanting people to engage in a democratic vote to determine the future of their country is me not caring about democracy! 🤯🤣 only on Scotsnet.

good for you howling; the referendum was decided in 2014 and the vote was no.

It wasn't taking into account oil though. All onshore.
Scotland's GDP is similar to many successful countries.
We live in a country where the government cannot borrow. When we needed furlough, we couldn't access it yet as soon as it was needed in England, the UK Government agreed to borrow on our behalf ( for furlough funding). Covid has shown , yet again, that full control of borrowing and spending is needed. It's normal!

@forfucksakenett

I am aware that they are different but the principle behind them, the idea of democratic participation, is exactly the same.

We have elections regularly to take account of material changes in society and to allow us to voice our opinions as a result. There has been significant material change since 2014 and that opens the referendum process back up to us. Same principle.

what's the significant material change? brexit? i would love for the government to just get on with governing, never mind moaning about independence constantly

@StarryEyeSurprise what about the quantitative easing question?

i would love for the government to just get on with governing, never mind moaning about independence constantly

Absolutely. Irony being making a decent job of the Holyrood admin and the relationship with local govt is a necessary first step to convincing the doubters on Indy. Only so long you can go on deflecting and blaming all missteps on an external bogey.

Scotland is a small/ medium size country with plenty going for it. We have industries, exports, renewables, universities, and quite frankly we have more resources of our own than many small to medium sized countries who are currently independent and doing pretty well.

Why on earth WOULDN'T Scotland manage as an independent country? When that is the norm? If it's that bloody hard to manage as an independent country, why aren't there more countries just dying to be dominated and out-voted in everything by Westminster?

What would cause an independent Scotland to fail?

There is UK debt to be shared out. There are also UK assets to be shared out. We could charge an extortionate rent for the filthy nukes we have to have parked in our waters, at least until they could be removed.

Seriously. Independence is normal.

@Nyx could you answer the questions about the currency and where the money is coming from to set that up?

Sturgeon talks a good talk. She has the rhetoric to charm the uneducated/ignorant voters who will swallow all her lies and promises. She is like the Pied piper and all the voters follow her...waving her flag..and where will they end up? Drowning. When independence comes all the people paying the taxes will be off. Where will Sturgeon be? Up the arses of the EU - very independent indeed!! Independence is an ideology and Sturgeon is clever enough to understand the Scottish psyche. The wave a flag at the eejits and watch them come running - too dim to figure out that it is all the Emperor's new clothes. All built on nothing. Watch any interview and watch her wriggle her way out of anything that requires solid answers from her. She will be laughing all the way to the bank whilst ruining the country she claims to love. She will be off into the sunset without a backwards glance. She just wants to fulfil her own desire and obsession. It is all about her ego. Ego, propaganda, lies, tell the masses what they want to hear, throw in a bit of tartan and bingo! It is a familiar trope and it never leads to anything good. There will be no Braveheart moment, just a lot of very disappointed people when the reality kicks in.

@Misshapencha0s

Sturgeon talks a good talk. She has the rhetoric to charm the uneducated/ignorant voters who will swallow all her lies and promises. She is like the Pied piper and all the voters follow her...waving her flag..and where will they end up? Drowning. When independence comes all the people paying the taxes will be off. Where will Sturgeon be? Up the arses of the EU - very independent indeed!! Independence is an ideology and Sturgeon is clever enough to understand the Scottish psyche. The wave a flag at the eejits and watch them come running - too dim to figure out that it is all the Emperor's new clothes. All built on nothing. Watch any interview and watch her wriggle her way out of anything that requires solid answers from her. She will be laughing all the way to the bank whilst ruining the country she claims to love. She will be off into the sunset without a backwards glance. She just wants to fulfil her own desire and obsession. It is all about her ego. Ego, propaganda, lies, tell the masses what they want to hear, throw in a bit of tartan and bingo! It is a familiar trope and it never leads to anything good. There will be no Braveheart moment, just a lot of very disappointed people when the reality kicks in.

I always wonder about the level of education of the posters who come on here and call others thick.

I thinks it's an amazing viewpoint to take. Particularly when I think of the the level of intelligence and education of most of the Yes voters I know.

You have balls of steel and the brain to match presumably?

It’s quite thick to say there needs to be no economic plan to be fair.

Well of course it is but that's not what I said is it?

Interesting that you would be calling other posters thick.