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Original poster

Feel depressed about the future

547 replies

Hobnob39 · 08/05/2021 23:15

The election results have made me feel really bluuuuerrgh.
I HATED the divisiveness of indyref1, I don't want another referendum. I want our government to do a better day job, but independence is going to be the focus until it happens now isn't it? I don't want independence for the same reasons I didn't want Brexit - I feel we shouldn't be dividing ourselves off into ever smaller parochial wee groups who all think we are somehow better than everyone else. It's enough to make me want to move... my DH is English and he wants to, but I have resisted, but it's getting harder to explain why. The only problem I have though is that I see the results in England and feel they as bad - I don't understand why people who are shafted by the Tory party are the ones voting for them! Sad I just do know where I belong now. It feels to me that Scotland is stuck with SNP and England stuck with Tory, and I'm adrift as I don't feel either represent me. Anyone else?

OP posts:
tabulahrasa · 09/05/2021 15:57

“I never saw tv footage of unionists chasing independence seeking politicians from the streets when they tried to speak in public.”

I’ve seen footage... though it never made it to the tv.

“ I don't know where you live so perhaps that explains why you can't see this but it's not in any way niche. At least it's not in Glasgow and the West. The orange lodge has a huge official and unofficial following that is far from small.”

I’m not in the west, and it’s not niche here either.

Lidlfix · 09/05/2021 15:59

In parts of Scotland sectarian unionism is not niche. Does that mean we shouldn't do anything that gives these bigots a chance to go mainstream? And I cited an example I have not gone on about anything so please don't attribute "keeping going on about" to me.

I am not political and scroll through most threads that go that way. But will share my experiences if they are relevant which this was. Hardly "going on".

Graffitiqueen · 09/05/2021 15:59

Honestly I think if you're assuming there will be an increase like there was in 2014 then you are off your head. The situation is very very different now. People are entrenched in their views.

There's less of a mandate now than there was in 2011 that promoted Indyref1. There is absolutely no evidence that people have changed their minds.

forfucksakenett · 09/05/2021 16:00

@Graffitiqueen

And we did decide. We said no in 2014. She hasn't gained a majority in this election. The majority of Scotland have spoken and not in favour of independence.
Jeeso here we go again.

Material change.

38,000 more unionist votes in a general election not an independence referendum.

  1. That's a very slim majority
  2. They weren't voting for independence
forfucksakenett · 09/05/2021 16:01

@Graffitiqueen

Honestly I think if you're assuming there will be an increase like there was in 2014 then you are off your head. The situation is very very different now. People are entrenched in their views.

There's less of a mandate now than there was in 2011 that promoted Indyref1. There is absolutely no evidence that people have changed their minds.

There won't be the same increase I'll give you that but we don't need the same increase. Not even close.
musingloud · 09/05/2021 16:01

[quote forfucksakenett]@musingloud I don't know where you live so perhaps that explains why you can't see this but it's not in any way niche. At least it's not in Glasgow and the West. The orange lodge has a huge official and unofficial following that is far from small. The identities are connected and of course not every unionist is a religious bigot but the numbers of the bigots are not in any way small.

I want aware that happened! What politician was chased by nationalists? This one passsd me by. [/quote]
Its niche in that it is tied to sectarianism. Its not like the Indyref spawned a whole new cohort of people who wanted to stay in the union and started being intimidating. Sectarians are a pre-existing group with a longstanding history of violence around constitutional issues.

Indyref did spawn a whole new level of intimidation from nationalists the like of which has not been seen in my lifetime in a democratic process. And from people who do not normally behave like that.

That labour politician who briefly became leader of labour, can't remember his name, was shouted down and had to abandon his rally. Eddy Izzard came to support a politician campaigning for the union and they were chased off and had to hide in a building. These were big news stories. It didn't happen the other way around. This doesn't just affect those individuals, it effects all supporters of the union who see that happening feel the emotional impact of that intimidation and silencing and aggression. Its intimidating. The NO side found it really hard to get people to door step in campaigning because people were scared to. I door stepped and found unionists were scared to speak. Not one or two. But over and over.

SempreSuiGeneris · 09/05/2021 16:01

Correction to my pp.

NS is "not ruling out" Indyref2 legislation in Spring 2022. That sounds very much like she is definitely not ruling it in then. Also twitter pointed out she has a set of local elections to navigate next year. Add in the odd by-election and there is plenty to keep them all focused on local politics rather than the constitution.

If they don't get some semblance of normality back to City and town centres and schools before the local elections the incumbent bounce could go into reverse very quickly. It was the Local elections in 2017 which concentrated minds in favour of a dozen Tory and half a dozen Labour MPs in the 2017 GE.

forfucksakenett · 09/05/2021 16:02

@Graffitiqueen

Honestly I think if you're assuming there will be an increase like there was in 2014 then you are off your head. The situation is very very different now. People are entrenched in their views.

There's less of a mandate now than there was in 2011 that promoted Indyref1. There is absolutely no evidence that people have changed their minds.

Apart from the fact the SNP have again just been elected as the biggest party in Holyrood when independence is central to their manifesto?

There's no evidence that you personally have changed your mind. There's plenty evidence that there is still a huge appetite for Indy.

musingloud · 09/05/2021 16:03

@Lidlfix

In parts of Scotland sectarian unionism is not niche. Does that mean we shouldn't do anything that gives these bigots a chance to go mainstream? And I cited an example I have not gone on about anything so please don't attribute "keeping going on about" to me.

I am not political and scroll through most threads that go that way. But will share my experiences if they are relevant which this was. Hardly "going on".

I was talking about 'you' plural. If you follow this thread there are several posters who keep going ' unionist are violent too! See the orange order!'
ZaZathecat · 09/05/2021 16:05

At least if Scotland get Independence they'll rejoin the EU. England will just become more and more isolated.

Graffitiqueen · 09/05/2021 16:05

I don't think anyone's denying there's a huge appetite for Indy. Unfortunately for you there's a bigger appetite for staying in the uk and that's just been demonstrated at the polls. If people really wanted out of the uk the SNP would have got a majority.

For people that keep banging on about the will of the people, you're a bit in denial of the reality of the actual will of the people. 🤔

Lidlfix · 09/05/2021 16:05

Maybe shouldn't have directed your post solely at me then.

forfucksakenett · 09/05/2021 16:08

@Graffitiqueen

I don't think anyone's denying there's a huge appetite for Indy. Unfortunately for you there's a bigger appetite for staying in the uk and that's just been demonstrated at the polls. If people really wanted out of the uk the SNP would have got a majority.

For people that keep banging on about the will of the people, you're a bit in denial of the reality of the actual will of the people. 🤔

We'll see. Grin
musingloud · 09/05/2021 16:11

@Lidlfix

Maybe shouldn't have directed your post solely at me then.
I assumed you realised you were joining an ongoing conversation between several people on that issue.
Graffitiqueen · 09/05/2021 16:12

Maybe we will. Personally I think Nicola knows fine well that they won't win a referendum anytime soon. They've had their chance they've blown it. If they lose another one then it'll be decades before they have another chance. For all the bluff and bluster I bet they try and delay as much as they can.

forfucksakenett · 09/05/2021 16:12

Jim Murphy. Shouted down every time he stood on his soap box. He did a deal with the Tories and effectively destroyed Scottish Labour.

Not sure how I feel about it tbh. It was extreme heckling and a bit of a poor show.

Not the same as calling an innocent wee lassie a fenian cunt though. Not the same as gathering en masse and doing Nazi salutes in George Square.

forfucksakenett · 09/05/2021 16:14

@Graffitiqueen

Maybe we will. Personally I think Nicola knows fine well that they won't win a referendum anytime soon. They've had their chance they've blown it. If they lose another one then it'll be decades before they have another chance. For all the bluff and bluster I bet they try and delay as much as they can.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 had their chance and blown it 🤣🤣🤣🤣Only in scotnset could someone say that with a straight face. Thanks for that @Graffitiqueen you've made my day!
Graffitiqueen · 09/05/2021 16:15

Jim Murphy was physically assaulted. After the referendum but one of his canvassers was chased by a yes supporter with a chainsaw. Bit worse than heckling in my book.

Whammyyammy · 09/05/2021 16:15

@ZaZathecat

At least if Scotland get Independence they'll rejoin the EU. England will just become more and more isolated.
Just rejoin the EU, is it that easy?
Graffitiqueen · 09/05/2021 16:15

Well see. 🙂

ZaZathecat · 09/05/2021 16:16

Whammy I believe the EU have said in the past that the door will be open to Scotland.

Iwouldratherbesailing · 09/05/2021 16:17

Hmm. Somewhat naive if you think Scotland has a chance of rejoining the euro. How about you take a look at the entrance requirements?

forfucksakenett · 09/05/2021 16:17

A chainsaw! Genuinely missed that. Are you sure?

forfucksakenett · 09/05/2021 16:20

@Graffitiqueen

Jim Murphy was physically assaulted. After the referendum but one of his canvassers was chased by a yes supporter with a chainsaw. Bit worse than heckling in my book.
Wow yes that's pretty bad! Much worse than heckling. Was completely unaware!
WouldBeGood · 09/05/2021 16:21

As I pointed out above @ZaZathecat Scotland wok to have a central bank or control of its currency which will be a barrier to it joining the EU.

As will it’s economy after any split. And as NS herself has conceded there will need to be a proper border with England. All fraught with difficulty.

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