Feel depressed about the future

[Hobnob39]

The election results have made me feel really bluuuuerrgh.
I HATED the divisiveness of indyref1, I don't want another referendum. I want our government to do a better day job, but independence is going to be the focus until it happens now isn't it? I don't want independence for the same reasons I didn't want Brexit - I feel we shouldn't be dividing ourselves off into ever smaller parochial wee groups who all think we are somehow better than everyone else. It's enough to make me want to move... my DH is English and he wants to, but I have resisted, but it's getting harder to explain why. The only problem I have though is that I see the results in England and feel they as bad - I don't understand why people who are shafted by the Tory party are the ones voting for them! I just do know where I belong now. It feels to me that Scotland is stuck with SNP and England stuck with Tory, and I'm adrift as I don't feel either represent me. Anyone else?

I'm beginning to see why the Union supporting people on this thread may have had untoward experiences if they approach independence supporting people in their physical lives the same way as they're doing on here.

Anyway, we'll soon find out all the answers to the questions posed.

Foreign exchange reserves?

@StarryEyeSurprise

Foreign exchange reserves?

You need them to back the new currency - so the new independent Scotland would need its own pound sterling reserves.

@happygolurkey

funny how the people most unable to conduct themselves on here without getting aggressive, hurling insults and sneerily dismissing others, are the ones always bleating that we should halt our democratic processes because they're far too upsetting for them.

Yes. This.

In Scotsnet we can't have a decent discussion about independence.

I believe honest, non-nasty discussion about possibilities frighten no voters because Scotland is actually well able to live within its quite decent means.

I can't think of any other reason to come over all nasty and sneering and condescending, insulting and mean.

@SixesAndEights

I'm beginning to see why the Union supporting people on this thread may have had untoward experiences if they approach independence supporting people in their physical lives the same way as they're doing on here.

Anyway, we'll soon find out all the answers to the questions posed.

They are pretty goady, I agree.

The reserves needed to enable a central bank to function successfully. Japan, for example, has $1,000 trillion. Obviously, it varies, but massive funds are needed to set this up.

Brexit was a fucking stupid idea but apparently you just need to dismiss everything as project fear, relentlessly bang on about taking back control, run some illegal campaigns and bobs your uncle.

I see absolutely no reason why the Scottish independence campaign can’t achieve the same glorious result. Brexiteers taught them everything they know.

I can’t see why the Indy side can’t answer basic questions on our economic future. How is that goady?

All that happens is they say they’re targeted by the nasty unionists, rather than answer questions.

Company doesn’t make money in Scotland so no point in keeping the office open when the jobs could relocate to the English offices rather than the extra cost of an office in a country too small for their product to be profitable. His and the others in the company will not be the only ones to go - we know quite a few people who pre Covid worked in London during the week. Working from home not a problem right now but not if we are a foreign country.

@StarryEyeSurprise it's whole departments jobs from well engineering, safety and environmental management all related to oil and gas - HSE offshore inspection unit, the Oil and Gas Authority and offshore petroleum regulator for environment and decommissioning all based in Aberdeen but all cover whole of UK. These are highly skilled and professional jobs not easily replaceable!

@Nesbo

Brexit was a fucking stupid idea but apparently you just need to dismiss everything as project fear, relentlessly bang on about taking back control, run some illegal campaigns and bobs your uncle.

I see absolutely no reason why the Scottish independence campaign can’t achieve the same glorious result. Brexiteers taught them everything they know.

And yes, to this. It’s scarily similar.

@WouldBeGood

The reserves needed to enable a central bank to function successfully. Japan, for example, has $1,000 trillion. Obviously, it varies, but massive funds are needed to set this up.

A more useful comparison is Denmark given the population size relative to Scotland, the krone and the economy; wonder what theirs are?

Believe it or not I'm really holding back...

There is no guarantee Scotland would vote for independence. We are still really divided. Sturgeon is not a stupid woman and she must know this. It’s not the time for an independence referendum. The problem is if she tells her wahoo supporters this she’ll lose a chunk of her voters.

@SixesAndEights

I'm beginning to see why the Union supporting people on this thread may have had untoward experiences if they approach independence supporting people in their physical lives the same way as they're doing on here.

Anyway, we'll soon find out all the answers to the questions posed.

I agree

Denmark 65.1 billion as of January 2021

As others have said we don't really know what Scotland would have and what we wouldn't in terms of assets etc post independence do we? some of it would have to be negotiated. and as far as the GERS figures go - they don't take account of what we might not be spending money on - eg trident , the House of Lords, and (possibly) £850 rolls of wallpaper, say. . People here can guess, sure, but we don't really know.
WouldBeGood Everything you are saying is perfectly reasonable but if you think anyone is sitting here with a list of Scotland's assets/forecasted spending etc in front of them that they can post up for you then, as you well know, that's unlikely so not a lot of point in repeatedly asking is there?

This is just the start of a democratic process that will need to involve full discussion (as we saw on the leaders' debates the Greens and SNP have a different view on currency) and will see the drawing up and laying out of all the plans in full. The paper for the last referendum was as thick as the Argos Catalogue (compare that to what we got to see beforehand about Brexit). And I know some people weren't happy with the white paper either - but this time there's no way the SNP are going to get away with not going into detail on all the points raised here. Then people can look at what's proposed, consider it and make up their minds. If they're not convinced then they're not going to vote for it.

The range given by professor Macdonald the Scottish economist was between £30 billion snd £300 billion

I love the way the you're so naive you think Union supporting people can discuss any of this stuff in real life. 😂😂

@RedcurrantPuff

There is no guarantee Scotland would vote for independence. We are still really divided. Sturgeon is not a stupid woman and she must know this. It’s not the time for an independence referendum. The problem is if she tells her wahoo supporters this she’ll lose a chunk of her voters.

This - look at the timings. No referendum this year.

Possibly some legislation passed to enable a referendum next year. Big if. Then there would have to be a trip to the Supreme Court which would say such legislation is not valid. That's 22 gone. No resolution to the issue unless there's a wildcat referendum.

23 - still not resolved. Could be the year? If Johnson fancies definitely cutting his own throat he will say yes to section 30. Bet he doesn't.

24 - election year and of course everyone says this is not the year no no - Johnson wins with another UK majority. SNP probably still in but no closer to delivering an actual referendum.

25 - this is the year?

@WouldBeGood

I can’t see why the Indy side can’t answer basic questions on our economic future. How is that goady?

All that happens is they say they’re targeted by the nasty unionists, rather than answer questions.

I've responded about currency, posting a link that details how three countries in Europe set up their currency after independence, and my answer to the currency question is that I expect Scotland would do something similar to one of the other newish independent countries in Europe (not necessarily one of the three in the example). None of them had reserves of $1000 trillion. I do not know if it cost any of the countries £300 Billion to set up a currency.

No one has the answer to the question of what exactly will happen. Which of course gives you the ammunition you want to ridicule those who support independence.

There are economists who believe Scotland can't manage on its own, and there are economists who believe that it will prosper. That us ordinary people on here can't answer in full and in immense detail questions to your satisfaction has no bearing on Scotland's future prosperity as an independent nation.

I'm not particularly opposed to independence but due to my childhood, I crave stability for my children and I'm terrified that we might end up in a situation where only 50.5 percent of a 60 (or similar) percent turnout vote yes.

Obviously that might be me being unfair but given the negative impact sectarianism has had on my family and that of dh's, I'm not sure I am.

Hopefully though the campaign will focus on convincing no voters and trying to pull the country together, rather than going down diversive lines.

I'm beginning to see why the Union supporting people on this thread may have had untoward experiences if they approach independence supporting people in their physical lives the same way as they're doing on here.
yes, that's what's hitting me Calyx72

Well that's a lovely sentiment isn't it, about people deserving bad treatment.

IRL it's a conversational no man's land.

Economists weren't divided in 2014 and aren't now, that's quite a misrepresentation. The majority of them thought Scottish independence would increase costs, and that this was an unexciting and uncontroversial fact.

Separating two economies who've been governed as one market for 300 years increases costs.