Feel depressed about the future

[Hobnob39]

The election results have made me feel really bluuuuerrgh.
I HATED the divisiveness of indyref1, I don't want another referendum. I want our government to do a better day job, but independence is going to be the focus until it happens now isn't it? I don't want independence for the same reasons I didn't want Brexit - I feel we shouldn't be dividing ourselves off into ever smaller parochial wee groups who all think we are somehow better than everyone else. It's enough to make me want to move... my DH is English and he wants to, but I have resisted, but it's getting harder to explain why. The only problem I have though is that I see the results in England and feel they as bad - I don't understand why people who are shafted by the Tory party are the ones voting for them! I just do know where I belong now. It feels to me that Scotland is stuck with SNP and England stuck with Tory, and I'm adrift as I don't feel either represent me. Anyone else?

@Theunamedcat

If you get a second referendum we should have a second one on Europe

It was a one shot deal it should remain as a one shot deal

It wasn't a one shot deal. In fact after the referendum the UK government agreed that it wasn't a one shot deal.

If you get a second referendum we should have a second one on Europe

No one wants Mum and Dad to remarry, the divorce was bad enough. How expensive and embarrassing.

[quote Nyx]@forfucksakenett I agree. We are beaten. Those of us who believe Scotland could thrive as an independent country should slap ourselves hard a few times for our sheer stupidity and remember how utterly useless Scotland and her people are. We would never amount to anything without being in the UK [/quote]
I always find it interesting that some people think the country they live in is so inadequate that it needs another country looking after it in order to survive let alone prosper.

I find it a peculiar mindset.

I just think if you are not au fait with economics or the consequences are not in a position to tell others they are wrong .

I don’t mind another referendum as long as beforehand all of the pros and cons are laid out clearly by a respected set of researchers appointed by agreement of both sides. It needs to be an informed decision. And it must be binding for at least 20 years. If no is the answer Scotland needs to be able to have enough breathing space for companies to be confident that they can invest in Scottish operations again.

@WouldBeGood

I just think if you are not au fait with economics or the consequences are not in a position to tell others they are wrong .

Yes exactly. Yet there you go. Telling others constantly that they're wrong.

@Nyx there are also several govt dept which are incredibly difficult to separate as the office and expertise are based in Scotland but they do whole UK work and those expertise are not based anywhere else and have to go through years of professional training. Westminster isn't going to say yep sure you can just have that whole office that they have spent millions training leaving them with no expertise of their own. They are likely to switch the location leaving the SG in a pickle of how they will regulate.

The main thing people want answers to is how are things going to be paid for, what is it going to do to taxes, border and trade etc
People are right to ask questions and want to see numbers about what can potentially hugely impact their lives. We don't want oh it's too soon or that will be worked out as we have all seen the effects!

@RaspberryCoulis

44% of people in Scotland don’t pay income tax.

And many of us in the other 56% are plotting our escape, taking our tax with us.

But there are also people moving to Scotland who are replacing you, and who will continue to do so.

But I am aware of the economics.😃

@WouldBeGood

But I am aware of the economics.😃

Sure you are.

@Iwouldratherbesailing

Nyx, we haven’t actually set up many more agencies post Brexit. HMRC just face 5 x the admin on imports and exports to the EU, and no one wants to trade with us cause of the horrendous admin. The experts all say the trade position alone post Indy would be 2.5-3 times worse than Brexit.

The Torirs implemented the terrible requirements on trade!!! Not the EU. The fisheries minister was too busy organising a nativity on the run up to Btexit so the procedure put in place was absolutely ridiculous.

Oh and re quantitative easing - this is why we obviously need our own currency. I can't see that costing £300b woildbegood. How did you get to that figure?

[quote Scottishskifun]@Nyx there are also several govt dept which are incredibly difficult to separate as the office and expertise are based in Scotland but they do whole UK work and those expertise are not based anywhere else and have to go through years of professional training. Westminster isn't going to say yep sure you can just have that whole office that they have spent millions training leaving them with no expertise of their own. They are likely to switch the location leaving the SG in a pickle of how they will regulate.

The main thing people want answers to is how are things going to be paid for, what is it going to do to taxes, border and trade etc
People are right to ask questions and want to see numbers about what can potentially hugely impact their lives. We don't want oh it's too soon or that will be worked out as we have all seen the effects![/quote]
Well they are going to be relocated to the North of England as part of the levelling up agenda along with lots of other government specialities - which is why you have lots of Northerners voting Tory. They want jobs.

[quote Scottishskifun]@Nyx there are also several govt dept which are incredibly difficult to separate as the office and expertise are based in Scotland but they do whole UK work and those expertise are not based anywhere else and have to go through years of professional training. Westminster isn't going to say yep sure you can just have that whole office that they have spent millions training leaving them with no expertise of their own. They are likely to switch the location leaving the SG in a pickle of how they will regulate.

The main thing people want answers to is how are things going to be paid for, what is it going to do to taxes, border and trade etc
People are right to ask questions and want to see numbers about what can potentially hugely impact their lives. We don't want oh it's too soon or that will be worked out as we have all seen the effects![/quote]
Genuinely interested - what role is only done in Scotland yet covers whole of the UK??

So @StarryEyeSurprise what will happen? Currency wise?

@WouldBeGood

I just think if you are not au fait with economics or the consequences are not in a position to tell others they are wrong .

Yet there are experienced economists who believe Scotland will make an economic success of independence.

@WouldBeGood

So *@StarryEyeSurprise* what will happen? Currency wise?

I already wrote it as simply as is humanely possible. Again, where did you get £300b from?

We were back to the hard discussion today as to whether my DH’s job will go to England and therefore us with it. At the last referendum it was a definite it would so no reason that it hasn’t changed.

Now ok that is one job, albeit there would be others in the same company. Those jobs are gone, not the individuals meaning no back-fill. This in turn means that in order to continue to have jobs on offer then we need another company to set up and create these high tax paying jobs.

This takes time to do and by the time it happens, those individuals have gone. That s one tiny example of what will happen and will be replicated by other companies.

The numbers do matter and the government needs to be honest with the electorate as otherwise we have no idea what we are actually going to get. We can hypothesise but we don’t know.

There is no guarantee about getting back into Europe and that, once we met the criteria is years away.

We don’t know the deal Westminster will give us, we might say that we will get x,y,z but really have we not learned from brexit, we don’t necessarily get what we think we are voting for.

@forfucksakenett I'm not sure why you think that we're not allowed to tell people that we think they're wrong?! 🤔

@WouldBeGood

So *@StarryEyeSurprise* what will happen? Currency wise?

Why don't you look at the numerous countries that have become independent in the last 20 years and see what they did?

"Honestly I'm embarrassed for you that you even posted this. It's the most naive simplistic non argument I've ever heard.

It's like saying to the bank manager when asking for a mortgage that other people manage mortgages without dealing with the specifics of how you would actually be able to afford it.

Nobody is saying Scotland couldn't be independent, just that we'd have to make some very tough choices to continue with the standard of living we have now."

@Graffitiqueen

What a patronising, shit comment. No wonder most yes voters don't bother commenting in Scotsnet. I am embarrassed for you with this comment. That is all.

[quote Graffitiqueen]@forfucksakenett I'm not sure why you think that we're not allowed to tell people that we think they're wrong?! 🤔 [/quote]
Of course you are. And you can expect it right back. Where did I say that you couldn't?

@Selkiesarereal

We were back to the hard discussion today as to whether my DH’s job will go to England and therefore us with it. At the last referendum it was a definite it would so no reason that it hasn’t changed.

Now ok that is one job, albeit there would be others in the same company. Those jobs are gone, not the individuals meaning no back-fill. This in turn means that in order to continue to have jobs on offer then we need another company to set up and create these high tax paying jobs.

This takes time to do and by the time it happens, those individuals have gone. That s one tiny example of what will happen and will be replicated by other companies.

The numbers do matter and the government needs to be honest with the electorate as otherwise we have no idea what we are actually going to get. We can hypothesise but we don’t know.

There is no guarantee about getting back into Europe and that, once we met the criteria is years away.

We don’t know the deal Westminster will give us, we might say that we will get x,y,z but really have we not learned from brexit, we don’t necessarily get what we think we are voting for.

What job? Interested to know why it couldn't be done in an indy Scotland.

I think you could have a reasonable guess at what would be offered by WM - which would be a goods only deal for trade, since it would be looking to pilfer Scottish financial services for London, nuclear deterrent to be managed overseas (no rental from Faslane), and no resort to financial reserves, third country status, grace period for those who wanted to retain British citiizenship for two years.

@Calyx72

"Honestly I'm embarrassed for you that you even posted this. It's the most naive simplistic non argument I've ever heard.

It's like saying to the bank manager when asking for a mortgage that other people manage mortgages without dealing with the specifics of how you would actually be able to afford it.

Nobody is saying Scotland couldn't be independent, just that we'd have to make some very tough choices to continue with the standard of living we have now."

@Graffitiqueen

What a patronising, shit comment. No wonder most yes voters don't bother commenting in Scotsnet. I am embarrassed for you with this comment. That is all.

It deserved to be patronised. Honestly do you actually think I give a shit what you think?!🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

It’s the potential cost of foreign exchange reserves required.

There’s also the problem of people having mortgages in sterling so they would need to deal with exchange rates and fluctuations. This would also be the case for pensions held in sterling pension funds.