Feel depressed about the future

[Hobnob39]

The election results have made me feel really bluuuuerrgh.
I HATED the divisiveness of indyref1, I don't want another referendum. I want our government to do a better day job, but independence is going to be the focus until it happens now isn't it? I don't want independence for the same reasons I didn't want Brexit - I feel we shouldn't be dividing ourselves off into ever smaller parochial wee groups who all think we are somehow better than everyone else. It's enough to make me want to move... my DH is English and he wants to, but I have resisted, but it's getting harder to explain why. The only problem I have though is that I see the results in England and feel they as bad - I don't understand why people who are shafted by the Tory party are the ones voting for them! I just do know where I belong now. It feels to me that Scotland is stuck with SNP and England stuck with Tory, and I'm adrift as I don't feel either represent me. Anyone else?

@happygolurkey

funny how the people most unable to conduct themselves on here without getting aggressive, hurling insults and sneerily dismissing others, are the ones always bleating that we should halt our democratic processes because they're far too upsetting for them.

Quite.

Do you really think Barnett is a gift from WM though?

Do you think Barnett is a lot more than Scotland raises on its own? Do you think that Westminster gives us free money out of the goodness of its heart? With our own revenues Holyrood could move away from the austerity model which has been proved to simply not work; they would inwardly invest to actively grow the economy. And as I said before, we would simply not be spending a large chunk of our funds on things that we do not agree with. We would spend a lot less on certain things and a lot more on other things. Nobody is saying it would be easy to start with. But for goodness' sake, it is not easy now. There is no hope for Scotland at all the way things are going. None.

@Nyx

Do you really think Barnett is a gift from WM though?

Do you think Barnett is a lot more than Scotland raises on its own? Do you think that Westminster gives us free money out of the goodness of its heart? With our own revenues Holyrood could move away from the austerity model which has been proved to simply not work; they would inwardly invest to actively grow the economy. And as I said before, we would simply not be spending a large chunk of our funds on things that we do not agree with. We would spend a lot less on certain things and a lot more on other things. Nobody is saying it would be easy to start with. But for goodness' sake, it is not easy now. There is no hope for Scotland at all the way things are going. None.

🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈

It's a bit off that you are deliberately goading people into providing specifics that everyone knows cannot be given yet. That does not make the case for independence any less valid. It's going to be highly complex yet you expect specific numbers and figures, not because you think anyone can provide them but because you just want to undermine and belittle people.

I think you're maybe rattled and lashing out. That's fine. Independence is very probably coming and you are just going to have to deal with it.

Sorry, it’s just so frustrating. It’s like leaving a really big life decision- like who to marry - in the hands of a 2 year old.

@ChocolateDeficitDisorder

It relied on oil revenue, which seemed fine at the time but not looking so promising now - and even that relied on Scotland getting the oil fields in the divorce.

No, that was never what the future plan relied on, unless you were only reading the unionist press?

Why would Scotland not get the oil fields in the divorce? Were we going to trade our waters for the Isle of Wight?

Westminster will be laughing if Scotland insists on all the oil fields in Scotland because most are coming to their end of life and the tax payer is responsible for 50% of decommissioning costs!

The price has bottomed out indy1 was based on a oil price of $80-100 its not been that since 2014 and lucky to get $40 there isnt a massive tax boom to be made from them and decommissioning is very expensive!

Nicola is not saying it will be hard though is she? She’s not spelling out the reality.

Setting up a new currency alone could cost £300 billion.

If we keep the pound we can’t join Europe or use quantitative easing as we won’t have our own bank.

We will need to set up our own HMRC, DVLA, pensions and benefits agency amongst other government departments. Armed forces too. Intelligence services and counter terrorism? And the costs of setting up a border, and tariffs on goods coming in from England potentially.

Will UK pensions keep being paid? And what about insurance companies? If we go to England on holiday will we need to pay for medical treatment if we need it?

44% of people in Scotland don’t pay income tax.

It’s clear it’s not viable, and as none of you have figures I guess you can’t argue.

I would hope the uk would help fund the decommissioning but who knows if they’ll be reasonable.

The SG has said that Scotland will be responsible for Scottish citizens pensions in an independent Scotland. www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202000130448/

Maybe, if they have the money

@WouldBeGood

Setting up a new currency alone could cost £300 billion.

If we keep the pound we can’t join Europe or use quantitative easing as we won’t have our own bank.

We will need to set up our own HMRC, DVLA, pensions and benefits agency amongst other government departments. Armed forces too. Intelligence services and counter terrorism? And the costs of setting up a border, and tariffs on goods coming in from England potentially.

Will UK pensions keep being paid? And what about insurance companies? If we go to England on holiday will we need to pay for medical treatment if we need it?

44% of people in Scotland don’t pay income tax.

It’s clear it’s not viable, and as none of you have figures I guess you can’t argue.

As I mentioned earlier, we already pay for our share of the agencies and offices we would need, such as HMRC etc.

And yes, setting up as independent would cost. Not as much as Brexit has and will cost us, i bet.

Same old story. We're all too thick. You guys know best. Despite the fact that a whole series of financial experts in 2014 said otherwise and it will be very interesting to see what these experts have to say in this new context.

You're right @WouldBeGood I bet nobody else in Scot Gov has thought of any of that. You better get on the phone and let them know.

This doesn’t obviously say how much they’ll pay in pension, just that if you have paid in to a uk pension for 35 years you’ll get 35 years worth of whatever Indy Scotland will pay. If they say you get £5 a week for every year paid, and you’ve paid in for 35 years then you’ll get £175 a week.

Again. Just snark in lieu of facts

44% of people in Scotland don’t pay income tax.

And many of us in the other 56% are plotting our escape, taking our tax with us.

@forfucksakenett I agree. We are beaten. Those of us who believe Scotland could thrive as an independent country should slap ourselves hard a few times for our sheer stupidity and remember how utterly useless Scotland and her people are. We would never amount to anything without being in the UK

@Iwouldratherbesailing

Sorry, it’s just so frustrating. It’s like leaving a really big life decision- like who to marry - in the hands of a 2 year old.

You don't really want people to engage with any of the questions you've asked, you only want independence supporters to say something, anything, that will enable you to aggressively mock them and call them stupid.

[quote Nyx]@forfucksakenett I agree. We are beaten. Those of us who believe Scotland could thrive as an independent country should slap ourselves hard a few times for our sheer stupidity and remember how utterly useless Scotland and her people are. We would never amount to anything without being in the UK [/quote]
Explain how then?

Nyx, we haven’t actually set up many more agencies post Brexit. HMRC just face 5 x the admin on imports and exports to the EU, and no one wants to trade with us cause of the horrendous admin. The experts all say the trade position alone post Indy would be 2.5-3 times worse than Brexit.

@happygolurkey

funny how the people most unable to conduct themselves on here without getting aggressive, hurling insults and sneerily dismissing others, are the ones always bleating that we should halt our democratic processes because they're far too upsetting for them.

Very true

And paying for a share in something is clearly different from paying for whole individual new systems particular to Scotland.

Of course Scotland can be an independent country - but given that the consensus appears to be that WM are awful, the Tories are awful, and the rUK would still be far bigger in economic terms than Scotland, can any explain why rUK would want to give or support Scotland in any way when independence was decided?

Scotland would have said "we want to compete with you rUK". rUK is bigger and would not want to give anything up, would it? Not its markets, currency support, quantative easing, it could change the funding for Scotland overnight, couldn't it? That is actually much tougher than leaving the EU - since the UK still had all its economic levers and markets it could access.

What if WM (as would seem very likely) just say no to the Scottish request re division of assets etc?

@WouldBeGood

Again. Just snark in lieu of facts

It's not snark. Nobody can currently provide you with the figures you want. That doesn't mean independence is impossible.

You keep asking though 😀

Your questions will be answered soon enough.

If you get a second referendum we should have a second one on Europe

It was a one shot deal it should remain as a one shot deal