Alba tanks it, SNP hold, Willie and Jackie romp home

[AnnieHooo]

Randomising going on. Labour bombed it. I was politically adrift yesterday but now I'm sunk.

If they get the message and the campaign tone right

I think this is key and I don't think they are close yet. Even though they're nowhere near as unpopular as Labour, they could learn a lot from the lessons Labour need to learn RE stop pandering to the people who would vote for you anyway and focus more on the people who aren't.

I voted yes last time but was more of a "fuck it let's see, how can it be any worse than Tory austerity" type mindset.

Just in my circles I noticed it was (broadly speaking):
The people who had nothing to lose (i.e more working class): Yes.
The people who had more to lose (i.e more middle class): No.
The people who had enough security that losing whatever amount didn't really matter (i.e the more upper class): Yes.
Unless they supported Rangers.

That was mostly from smoking shelter chats in a large engineering company.

But if the vote were to happen again tomorrow I'd want to see more. I'd want to see their actual vision for an independent Scotland. I'd want to see their plan to turn Scotland into the Saudi of renewables, with all the engineering and manufacturing and support jobs that goes with it, and less about how we're the land of milk and honey for refugees, and you can choose if your milk comes from a man cow or woman cow etc.

Not that I'm anti-refugee, or against their attempts to PR Scotland into this huge-hearted embracing bosom of love... it just has very little bearing on my life or my kids life. I care about my business (which has taken a pelting from their 0 covid at all costs stance), I care about my children's education (do I even need to say more about the state of education in this country?) and I care about my children's futures re can they buy a house and get a decent job.

I couldn't bring myself to vote the other day. I was either going to spoil or vote Alba + Tory (since the Tory guy is the only one I've ever had an answer from)... but it was cold and raining and I knew it wouldn't change anything.

So that was a long way of saying that I agree with independence in principle (else I wouldn't have voted for it last time)... but the SNP need to make more people agree with independence in practical terms.

@ScotlandUnited

I place more value on the views of John Curtice than I do Lesley Riddoch although I know their qualifications are different. I've met them both several times too.

Ermmm okay.

@winched

If they get the message and the campaign tone right

I think this is key and I don't think they are close yet. Even though they're nowhere near as unpopular as Labour, they could learn a lot from the lessons Labour need to learn RE stop pandering to the people who would vote for you anyway and focus more on the people who aren't.

I voted yes last time but was more of a "fuck it let's see, how can it be any worse than Tory austerity" type mindset.

Just in my circles I noticed it was (broadly speaking):
The people who had nothing to lose (i.e more working class): Yes.
The people who had more to lose (i.e more middle class): No.
The people who had enough security that losing whatever amount didn't really matter (i.e the more upper class): Yes.
Unless they supported Rangers.

That was mostly from smoking shelter chats in a large engineering company.

But if the vote were to happen again tomorrow I'd want to see more. I'd want to see their actual vision for an independent Scotland. I'd want to see their plan to turn Scotland into the Saudi of renewables, with all the engineering and manufacturing and support jobs that goes with it, and less about how we're the land of milk and honey for refugees, and you can choose if your milk comes from a man cow or woman cow etc.

Not that I'm anti-refugee, or against their attempts to PR Scotland into this huge-hearted embracing bosom of love... it just has very little bearing on my life or my kids life. I care about my business (which has taken a pelting from their 0 covid at all costs stance), I care about my children's education (do I even need to say more about the state of education in this country?) and I care about my children's futures re can they buy a house and get a decent job.

I couldn't bring myself to vote the other day. I was either going to spoil or vote Alba + Tory (since the Tory guy is the only one I've ever had an answer from)... but it was cold and raining and I knew it wouldn't change anything.

So that was a long way of saying that I agree with independence in principle (else I wouldn't have voted for it last time)... but the SNP need to make more people agree with independence in practical terms.

Sensible and I agree with almost everything you say.

Great thread. Good to learn and follow this debate.

Good point by Smellycats

(There is still no majority) in spite of Boris and Brexit.

Just in my circles I noticed it was (broadly speaking):
The people who had nothing to lose (i.e more working class): Yes.
The people who had more to lose (i.e more middle class): No.
The people who had enough security that losing whatever amount didn't really matter (i.e the more upper class): Yes.
Unless they supported Rangers.

All of these, but in my circle I'd add in parents of young children as a key group. Economic uncertainty was a very big concern wrt future jobs for their children, being able to own a home etc. They were all 'No'. The friends I have without kids were all 'Yes'.

This is by far my biggest concern still.

I find the fact that young people now are struggling with debt and unable to get on the property ladder just awful. I appreciate this probably puts them in the 'nothing to lose' camp, but I don't want it to be even worse for my children. I'm not wealthy, and I can't bail them out if things get tough, so I do need some degree of certainty.

I'm not taking a blind leap of faith with THEIR future.

Nor do I want them trapped in Boris's Britain either, so the fact the SNP hasn't addressed even a single one of my concerns since the last referendum is quite depressing. It's not like they haven't had time.

I'm not entirely sure that this thread or indeed scotsnet in general can be taken to be representative.

I'm 100% surer than sure that Scotsnet is absolutely not representative at all!!!

There are so many unanswered (and unasked!) questions! Or questions that have had vague answers yet so many people don't seem to even care! it's all going to be fiiiiine sigh

What would our currency be?
Will we get into the EU? Should we? and when would it happen?
What will Scotland do in the meantime to support itself etc if its neither in the UK or the EU?
What about the NHS?
What about banks/finance?
What about jobs that rely on being part of the UK?
What about jobs at Faslane?
What about defence overall?
What about the NHS?
what about international travel / foreign holidays / passports etc?
What about benefits?
And how long would it take to figure out all of the above?

Just in my circles I noticed it was (broadly speaking):
The people who had nothing to lose (i.e more working class): Yes.

It’s horrible that people feel they have nothing to lose. What is also terrifying is that indeed...they think it’s bad now...there is plenty further still to fall.

When I placed my vote on the regional list, the first on the list was the ‘abolish the Scottish parliament party’....I was so dejected I was tempted for a few seconds to waste my vote there! I didn’t of course, but I couldn’t help thinking that when Scotland voted for devolution, there was such an air of optimism about what a great opportunity this was to “take control and lead our country to greatness.” 20+ years later...THIS is not a government or if I am honest...the country I used to be so proud of. It breaks my heart. WE have ruined our kids education, our health service has deteriorated worse than in England and we have become a divided, and quite unpleasant place to live. The SG has shown they are incompetent in governing...and for everyone who says they won’t vote SNP after we get independence...who exactly do you think is capable of creating this great vision? It certainly is someone who I am not aware of. I can’t take a punt when I care so deeply for the future and opportunities for my children, whose education I am currently supplementing due to the woeful provision.

So...if people believe they have nothing to lose, it’s easy to get caught up in the excitement of possible change...but it never really works out the way you had hoped.