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Alba tanks it, SNP hold, Willie and Jackie romp home

183 replies

AnnieHooo · 07/05/2021 21:01

Randomising going on. Labour bombed it. I was politically adrift yesterday but now I'm sunk.

OP posts:
StarryEyeSurprise · 08/05/2021 15:43

@ResilienceWanker

Yes - my dad voted SNP though he thinks independence is a silly idea Confused. But it was the first time in 45 years in the UK he's been allowed to vote, so voted for NS because it was an SNP policy to extend the franchise Hmm... And he's got a bit of an old man crush on Nicola-off-the-telly telling everyone how to stay safe.

My words were not very polite when he told me, to be honest. And neither were mum's. Though, to be fair to him, if the SNP leaflets where they live were anything like ours, they wouldn't have mentioned independence or a referendum at all. So he could be forgiven for not realising that a vote for the SNP would be taken as a mandate for independence. Because they wouldn't be so dishonest as to leave out such a key aspect of their manifesto from their election literature or anything.

You mean a mandate to have a vote. No one is forcing independence on Scotland.
ResilienceWanker · 08/05/2021 15:47

Sorry - thought I'd written Indyref, but my phone obviously disagreed. My bad.

Chasingamy · 08/05/2021 15:59

@Srirachachacha

Can we just get independence and the tory voters Borders can go with England already?
I live in the Borders - was born in Scotland and have lived here all my life. Why have comments like this become acceptable? What a chilling idea to form a new nation where there is no dissent or difference in political views allowed. I’m a Labour voter but would absolutely not judge people purely on the way they vote... and wouldn’t expect it in return. Scotland is on a dangerous path with such polarised camps.
Srirachachacha · 08/05/2021 16:12

@Chasingamy it was tongue in cheek. It was in reference to the borders/Dumfries have voted Tory which I cannot fathom and which seems so out of step with the rest of the country, yet somehow in step with old Labour areas down south going Tory too.

I dislike the Tory government and I don't understand why anyone votes for them. There are other pro union parties that are not Tory.

Chasingamy · 08/05/2021 16:25

@Srirachachacha I apologise then I shouldn’t have been so sensitive to your comment as it was meant light heartedly. I think I’ve seen so many comments in the last few days (from all different sides) that seem to be meant seriously and quite shocking but appreciate yours was not meant in that way. Admittedly mainly on social media so maybe a break from that is in order!

smellycats · 08/05/2021 16:26

Why can't you understand it? Some of the people close to the actual border stand to take the biggest hit. The border actually cuts through some farms; some people live in Scotland and work in England and vice versa. Families divided across the border too.

You vote for a party you say you don't support because of what you want. Many in the borders are doing the same.

And the rest of us who would rather think about independence ONLY when there is an obvious very clear majority for it, are trapped between both those camps with critical issues like education, health etc not being dealt with properly.

Horehound · 08/05/2021 16:27

Kind of agree with this. It is hypocritical of Mr Johnson to deny it when they proceeded with the Brexit referendum on even less part vote %age

Alba tanks it, SNP hold, Willie and Jackie romp home
smellycats · 08/05/2021 16:29

There are other pro union parties that are not Tory.

Equally, there are other pro-Indy parties that aren't SNP. But I assume you're voting strategically, as are the people in the Borders who stand to be collateral damage.

smellycats · 08/05/2021 16:32

@Horehound

Kind of agree with this. It is hypocritical of Mr Johnson to deny it when they proceeded with the Brexit referendum on even less part vote %age

I agree too. But I think Sturgeon made a mistake by insisting a clear SNP majority was the real mandate. She reiterated this when Alba came along too, and at the time I thought she'd probably come to regret it.

ScotlandUnited · 08/05/2021 16:41

Not happy the Greens seem to have increased their seats. Loathe their attitude to women and Patrick Harvie is just a horrible rude wee man.

Srirachachacha · 08/05/2021 16:47

@smellycats I've realised that I do to the borders what the UK does to Scotland - forgets it is a key component with a smaller voice that should still be heard. It brings home the issues that NI and Ireland still face (ie the farmland being split) so many decades on that often we conveniently forget about when considering independence.

I'm in Glasgow in a weird area where SNP most likely will win with the tories second.

smellycats · 08/05/2021 16:52

Yes. And unfortunately for this area, there is no Irish Sea to create a less intrusive border. And you can't rejoin the EU without having an actual real border, so where does it leave these communities?

Srirachachacha · 08/05/2021 17:10

*labour came second here. My prediction was wildly wrong.

I grew up near Ravenscraig - I remember watching it being torn down as a kid. That left a scar on the area that I can't see the Tories ever, ever bouncing back from. That's why I can't fathom the Tory voting even tactically.

I think I live in a bit of an echo chamber with my friends though. It's almost trendy to be pro Independence, pro Europe and anti Tory. Everyone I know votes Green or SNP. The Tories are just seen as unacceptable.

Actually spending the time talking about it to people with a different viewpoint throws up a lot of important issues easily forgotten.

ScotlandUnited · 08/05/2021 17:36

I don't envy the person who has to read out the West of Scotland list votes after the size of that ballot paper!

GrandPrismatic · 08/05/2021 17:58

Regional seats starting to roll in....

ScotlandUnited · 08/05/2021 18:18

and so the independence campaign begins Hmm Angry

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 08/05/2021 18:23

Those puzzled about the Borders and D&G voting Tory. Are you aware many are farmers and landowners who traditionally vote Tory, and many people retire to these areas from England and are not in favour of independence for Scotland.

On another point: those who say they remember how the Tories behaved in the 1980s therefore they will never vote Tory. News just in: this is the 2020s. The 1980s were 40 years ago. Its like when your Grandpa went on about what happened in the 1930s and you laughed and rolled your eyes and said 'this is the 1970s, things are different nowadays!'

I voted with an eye to the future, not to the past - I can't change that.

Srirachachacha · 08/05/2021 18:28

On another point: those who say they remember how the Tories behaved in the 1980s therefore they will never vote Tory. News just in: this is the 2020s.

Oh I hadn't realised that the Tories had done a 360 and were so pro the working class now. Thanks for pointing it out, I'll definitely be voting for the Tories next time round since they're such humanitarians these days Hmm

StarryEyeSurprise · 08/05/2021 18:32

I realise what the Tories are doing in May 2021. So do most people.

Thanks to the result in North Edinburgh and Leith, now a pro indy majority.

ScotlandUnited · 08/05/2021 18:36

not every snp voter supports independence. On Scotsnet for example, many SNP voters said they actually weren't sure whether to vote SNP but didn't like the other parties. So its more a party preference than a wish for independence. Trust Nicola to fudge that.

RaspberryCoulis · 08/05/2021 18:47

More division. More referendum campaigning while education and the rest of it is left to go to shit. More nastiness and ill-feeling.

Fucking awful. We are living in a totally divided country.

The only silver lining is that the odious Salmond appears to have crashed and burned.

StarryEyeSurprise · 08/05/2021 19:01

Full Transcript of the speech just made by
Nicola Sturgeon:
“When the SNP first entered government back in 2007, we secured just one more seat than the Labour Party.
Few people back then could have predicted that 14 years on, the SNP would be re-elected for a fourth consecutive term as Scotland’s government.
And absolutely no-one then would have predicted the sheer scale and record-breaking nature of our victory at this election.
We have won 62 constituency seats - a record number and an incredible 85% of the total.
This election result is - by any standard - an extraordinary and historic achievement.

We took our positive message of hope and recovery to every corner of the country, and it has been endorsed emphatically by the Scottish people.
My heartfelt thanks go to all those in the SNP who worked so hard in such difficult circumstances to make all of this possible.
I also send my warm congratulations to successful candidates from all parties and of course my commiserations to those who lost out. I know - from personal experience - how tough that is.
But most of all I want to thank the people of Scotland for putting their trust in me and in the SNP once again.

We will work to repay that trust every day.
Over these past 14 years, the make-up of the Scottish electorate has changed.

16 and 17 year olds can now vote, and seeing so many of our young people engaged and energised inspires real hope for the future.
And in this election, for the very first time, foreign nationals and refugees also had the right to vote - a tangible symbol of the inclusive country we are.
On Thursday morning in my own constituency, I met with Syrian refugees who had just cast their first vote in Scotland.

It was a deeply emotional moment for them - and as a country it should make us proud.
But my message today is for all of Scotland and it is this -

Wherever you are from, whatever age you are, whatever your background – and no matter who you voted for - the SNP in government is dedicated to working hard for you.
I pledge that the task of building a better Scotland for everyone who lives here will be my priority every single day.

As First Minister, my immediate and overriding task will be to do everything I can to keep people as safe as possible.
While we are making real and positive progress, we have not yet beaten COVID.

In this election I said tackling the pandemic must come first and I meant it.
I will be returning to work straight away to take the decisions that will guide our next steps back to normality, and onto recovery.
In this election, the SNP put forward an ambitious and transformative programme to kick-start and drive recovery.
We will now get on with the job of delivering that programme. It means - The remobilisation of our NHS, coupled with the investment it needs to secure it for the figure.

A new National Care Service.
Investment to support new, green jobs and reskill people for the jobs of the future.

A Youth Guarantee to secure opportunities for our young people.
Action to tackle the climate emergency and ensure a just transition.

More houses, better schools and an unwavering commitment to lifting children out of poverty.
The policy programme we put before the people of Scotland will move our country forward and make it better – of that I have no doubt.
But while we have obviously focussed this weekend on our own election results, the results south of the border reveal an important truth about Scotland and the rest of the UK.
The majority of people in Scotland back a progressive, inclusive, outward looking vision for the future of our nation.
And yet we are facing many more years of right-wing Brexit-obsessed Tory governments that we don’t vote for, taking us in a direction we haven’t chosen.
And that brings into sharp focus the key question we posed at this election - how do we best secure the kind of country we want to build?

And it is why Scotland must have the right to decide our own future when the Covid crisis has passed.
This is now a matter of fundamental democratic principle.

Already today, I hear opposition parties - and some commentators - talking about what they call “SNP demands” for an independence referendum.
They are desperately trying to rewrite the basic rules of democracy and redefine what constitutes an election win and a mandate.

And I hear about Boris Johnson refusing to give in to these demands.
And what supposedly clever manoeuvres Westminster might be planning.

All of this treats voters in Scotland as if they simply don’t matter - like they are just a side-show.
But voters are not a side-show. You - not me or Boris Johnson - are the people who matter. And so let’s be clear about what Scotland voted for on Thursday.
The people of Scotland have voted to give pro-independence parties a majority in the Scottish Parliament - the final tally is not yet known, but it looks likely that the pro independence majority will be larger in this parliament than in the last one
The SNP and Scottish Greens both stood on a clear commitment to an independence referendum within the next Parliamentary term.
And both of us said that the timing of a referendum should be decided by a simple majority of MSPs in the Scottish Parliament.
So in no way is a referendum just demand of me or the SNP.

It is a commitment made to the people by a majority of the MSPs who will take their seats in our national parliament next week.
Usually - and by the normal standards of democracy - parties are expected to deliver on the commitments they make in elections, not face attempts to block them from doing so.
Given the outcome of this election, there is simply no democratic justification whatsoever for Boris Johnson or anyone else seeking to block the right of the people of Scotland to choose our future.
If there is such an attempt it will demonstrate conclusively that the UK is not a partnership of equals and that – astonishingly – Westminster no longer sees the UK as a voluntary union of nations.
That in itself would be a very powerful argument for independence.

Holding a referendum of course does not mean that Scotland will automatically become independent.

That will be a choice for the people of Scotland.
The task for those of us who support independence is to patiently persuade our fellow citizens of the case, and that is what the SNP intends to do.
So let me set out the task ahead - for me and your re-elected SNP government.

First and foremost, it is lead Scotland through the pandemic and to keep people safe.

That will be my focus when I return to my desk tomorrow.
It is then to kick-start and drive our recovery with an ambitious and transformative programme for government.

And, yes, when the crisis has passed, it is to give people in Scotland the right to choose their future.
All of that is what I promised and all of that is what I intend to deliver. But first, I am getting back to work to lead the country through and out of this Covid crisis.

Thank-you for the trust you have once again placed in me
I promise to serve you with integrity, energy and an unwavering commitment to building the better Scotland we all know is possible."

Scottishskifun · 08/05/2021 19:04

@RaspberryCoulis

More division. More referendum campaigning while education and the rest of it is left to go to shit. More nastiness and ill-feeling.

Fucking awful. We are living in a totally divided country.

The only silver lining is that the odious Salmond appears to have crashed and burned.

This is pretty much my thoughts and feelings along with sense of dread of what is to come and what abuse I will receive again for being English living in Scotland!
RaspberryCoulis · 08/05/2021 19:04

Why did you post that? Seriously? If anyone is devoted enough to want to read the speech by the Dear Leader, they can do it elsewhere. You do realise that over 50% of people have ZERO interest in what that woman has to say?

And "integrity" my arse. I don't remember. I don't recall. I'm not sure.

RaspberryCoulis · 08/05/2021 19:08

DH is English. Oldest DS has an English accent. They got dog's abuse last time, despite the Nationalists wittering on about how uplifting and amicable it all was.

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