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The End is CerTEIRnly in Sight ...

999 replies

dancemom · 30/04/2021 15:01

New thread, possibly the last?

OP posts:
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18
ResilienceWanker · 26/05/2021 15:23

[quote SoMuchForSummerLove]@ResilienceWanker but what if what the nations want differs significantly? DC said that BJ has never wanted, and still doesn't want, a border control policy. I think it's pretty obviously true by the small, difficult to keep track of, late policies he's implemented.

But his decision in terms of borders made the rest of the UK vulnerable. Certainly NS didn't agree, but what choice was there? Devolution is a mess, and this has shown it quite starkly. We have a terribly ineffective PM, as is very clear, and yet if any other nation wants to make better different policy choices, it's always politicised as a power struggle.

It does nobody any favours.[/quote]
Well, that's when the nations talk and agree a compromise she says, in her unrealistic naive version of utopia... . Maybe BJ could accept some restrictions to minimise importing different variants and maybe NS could recognise that we can't cut ourselves off from the rest of the world indefinitely and need to allow some travel. Neither is intrinsically a bad decision, and no one, not even BJ, is setting out to kill anyone through reckless abandon. It's not fair to say NS obviously had the right approach and BJ the wrong one. If we had done a New Zealand, and there hadn't been a vaccine, where would we be now?! (apart from starving, living on a diet of turnips and all the whisky and salmon we couldn't export).

I think it's perfectly fair to have different policies on most things, but on this, which so obviously ties Scotland to the rest of the UK (whether you think that's good (vaccines and furlough) or bad (travel and Matt Hancock)), I think it would have been sensible to be more collaborative. There's enough to nitpick at with other things for all your constitutional nitpicking desires...

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 26/05/2021 15:25

@SoMuchForSummerLove DC said in his evidence that this was what all the scientific advice to ministers was saying - that they needed low risk people to get infected to build up herd immunity because it's seen as inevitable, and the real fear is that you postpone the peak to the Winter where it coincides with all the other seasonal bugs. I think I recall a similar message from one of the press briefings at the time along those lines too. In that context, with all your advisors telling you people need to get it, suggesting chicken pox parties isn't that outrageous. Of course we now know that the scientific advice was bad, but had ministers not gone along with what the scientists were telling them, locked down and then there had been the main event in the Winter and it had overwhelmed the NHS, we'd quite rightly be tearing strips off them for that. I for one don't envy the people having to make these decisions at that time.

SoMuchForSummerLove · 26/05/2021 15:28

Sorry, I will go back and read all your posts, but I find it breathtaking that the PM said 'let the bodies pile high in their thousands'.

The man who is charged with lead our nation - actually he's a public servant, there to serve us.

Honestly still surprises me that I manage to be shocked by his mendacity, but here I am.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 26/05/2021 15:32

I'm not for a second defending all the decisions that BJ has made - I think it's quite unfortunate that we happened to have a PM like him in such a time of crisis. I'm just saying that given what SAGE was advising at the time, and the quite reasonable assumption that vaccines were years away, building 'herd immunity' in the low risk doesn't seem unreasonable.

SoMuchForSummerLove · 26/05/2021 15:35

I think what you say sounds reasonable - but then I think of all the countries where a better decision was made.

charliebrown59 · 26/05/2021 15:41

It is only clear now that lockdowns were the better decision due to the vaccines on the table, reducing hospitalisations and so far being resistant to new variants.

It's funny I loathe Boris and that crew but I can't really see that the decisions they've made on the ground were all that bad in real time.

ssd · 26/05/2021 15:49

@charliebrown59

It is only clear now that lockdowns were the better decision due to the vaccines on the table, reducing hospitalisations and so far being resistant to new variants.

It's funny I loathe Boris and that crew but I can't really see that the decisions they've made on the ground were all that bad in real time.

So you dont mind the millions given to their pals for contracts?
charliebrown59 · 26/05/2021 15:54

There will be an investigation into that coming - at least Starmer was calling for that. We don't have any comparisons for govt corruption on contracts across other countries do we?

I've read of many, many murky and poor value contracts and it looks like a low standards sector in general.

WouldBeGood · 26/05/2021 16:01

That’s what really disgusts me @ssd.

ssd · 26/05/2021 16:04

Me too. Scummy conniving bastards.

ssd · 26/05/2021 16:20

What has Cummings said about NS?

I haven't been able to follow it all.

Scottishskifun · 26/05/2021 16:23

@SoMuchForSummerLove

Scottish I honestly think if you listened to what DC said today (notwithstanding the fact that he's, well, who he is) you wouldn't think they are all the same. Some of it is truly shocking. Matt Hancock being caught lying multiple times in cabinet meetings and still has his job to this day. Covid parties to hasten herd immunity?

Come on. It would be truly unfair to claim that every politician is essentially making decisions to wilfully kill people.

All govts (and politicians) put people back into care homes without testing though and since tried to cover up the number of deaths this caused if that's not willful killing people I don't know what is. Both govt also stopped testing against advice of the WHO.

As for DC I can't listen to such a snake who when asked about MPs receiving death threats about brexit rather then condemning them his response was to say they should get on with it then. This is also a man who told the civil service that they should forget about covid and direct efforts to brexit last year BTW. He then throws civil servants under the bus and says he's not clever enough to make decisions....... Have no doubt about it DC is a scheming snake who is doing all of this for his own personal gains.

Will wait for the book to come out in 6 months!

SoMuchForSummerLove · 26/05/2021 16:25

I don't care what governments in other countries do! It doesn't make it acceptable. Hungary grounds planes so it can detain and torture a passenger, shall we all get on board with that then?

Talk about a race to the bottom. Why on earth would anyone try to excuse it??

12 BILLION to BJ's pal. Billion. For what??

SoMuchForSummerLove · 26/05/2021 16:26

Here's what he said:

The last Cobra meeting I can even remember downstairs in the Cobra room was essentially a potemkin meeting because it was with the DA's [devolved administrations] and what happened was as soon as we had these meetings Nicola Sturgeon would just go straight out and announce what she wanted straight afterwards.

Fuck me, the leader of a country saying something openly about what she thought should happen. Disgraceful.

ssd · 26/05/2021 16:32

I see that as nicola sturgeon having the grace to let the uk government get the first word in

Although I know many wont share my views here Grin

WouldBeGood · 26/05/2021 16:41

I just don’t see why the Tory government being a shower of fuckwits means that the SG is not 🤷🏻‍♀️

ssd · 26/05/2021 16:54

No one is saying theyre not. Just because i want independence doesnt mean i want a never ending snp gov in power. Ive said before, id love a strong labour government in Westminster, then i feel we wouldn't need independence. But the thought of years of right wing tory governments makes me vote yes. And theres loads the snp have done that i dont agree with. But i cant accept or ever vote for a right wing tory government, but it doesn't mean the snp are shining stars. Far from it.

But given the choice between Johnson in Westminster and NS in government here I'll go for NS.

ssd · 26/05/2021 16:57

I do like reading different viewpoints here though, although i think scotsnet veers towards the tories and sneers at snp....but i could be wrong 🤷‍♀️

ssd · 26/05/2021 16:58

More than anything I'd like labour to come back.

Scottishskifun · 26/05/2021 17:07

@SoMuchForSummerLove

I don't care what governments in other countries do! It doesn't make it acceptable. Hungary grounds planes so it can detain and torture a passenger, shall we all get on board with that then?

Talk about a race to the bottom. Why on earth would anyone try to excuse it??

12 BILLION to BJ's pal. Billion. For what??

I was on about the different devolved UK govts they all did the same thing. That's why I don't think any of them has a high ground with this all. They all fecked up NS and BJ alike!

Not really a race to the bottom just think its stupid to throw stones when they did the same thing!

UK and devolved countries stopped testing, moved people out of hospitals without testing, had inadequate PPE supplies then tried to blame care homes for it. They were all there in the meetings!

titsintiers · 26/05/2021 17:14

Can't stand snp or the tories @ssd

I would love to know what dirt Cummings has on Boris that he stayed there for so long.

charliebrown59 · 26/05/2021 17:17

Still depressed that so many here voted SNP and so many in England voted conservative - I thought both starmer and sarwar looked promising and still do. I'd love a decent uk wide Labour govt.

I thought Andy b's piece about Labour and regionalism was good, Labour do need to look to the places they did well and try and emulate that.

forfucksakenett · 26/05/2021 17:41

Finally, for the first time, someone admits on here that care homes wasn't a uniquely Scottish problem.

There's fuckwits and then there's complete and utter total fuckwits.

The SG are the former and Boris and his cronies are the latter.

WouldBeGood · 26/05/2021 17:43

Totally anti Tory here @ssd, but also loathe the SNP.

I probably rant more about the SNP on here as they are the ones who have more impact on my day to day life (especially this year: I’m looking at you, John Swinney) and make me worry about the future of Scotland.

Despise Boris and his cronies. Despise Nicola and her cronies.

WouldBeGood · 26/05/2021 17:44

The governor of Florida chose not to put infected old people back into care homes and that decision proved an excellent one.

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