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The Tierany of Tiers

999 replies

dancemom · 11/03/2021 18:39

Teirtastic times ahead ....

OP posts:
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13
ResilienceWanker · 21/03/2021 20:12

Yy scottishskifun! Of course, a nurse passing covid to a patient isn't immoral. They are just a victim of inadequate PPE and poor management. But an adult child passing it to an aged parent is careless and selfish and reckless because they had no need to be that close to pass it on. I just can't get on board with that argument.

I really can't get worked up about a group of vaccinated friends meeting inside for a coffee either. Where is the risk there that makes it immoral, and how will that change once more people are vaccinated? OK, there's the miniscule risk one could pass it to another, who then passes it to an unvaccinated child who is unfortunate enough to get really ill. But there will always be unvaccinated people (children, allergies etc). Do we have a duty to avoid socialising with anyone ever again in order to avoid them getting really ill?

Of course any "unnecessary" death is tragic - whether from covid or something else, and whether someone young or old but otherwise healthy, but over the population we know covid overwhelmingly affects the elderly worst (with other factors obviously coming into play too). And now they have been vaccinated the societal risk, of overwhelmed health services or whatever has diminished.

FWIW I don't think people have been blatantly flouting rules. I think They have been making more use of the exemptions on caring visits, vulnerable support, carrying out work that can't be done from home and whatever. Obviously at some stage, things that weren't urgent and could be put off, suddenly become urgent and necessary. So it was never "essential" for me to do exercise at any particular time or in any particular way, but I chose to, because it was the only excuse I had to leave the house. So it may not be "essential" to support a (hypothetical) struggling friend on any particular day, or by (hypothetically) inviting her round for a cuppa but at some point it is essential to support her. And that point may well be when we haven't seen each other for 5 months and are getting fed up.

Scottishskifun · 21/03/2021 20:25

It's not immoral at all the immoral part of all of this is how some people have lost a sense of humanity, finger point, call the police on neighbours having a cup of tea without bothering to find out if the person is OK etc etc.

People have judged others and acted horrendously and have taken the stance of well I have to do it so why don't you without considering there are serious things going on which they don't know about.

Unless it's a obvious houseparty I don't care what people do. If they have people in their house to stop them having a mental breakdown then so be it I don't know their history or struggles so not going judge or finger wag. It's up to the individual to assess risk to yourself and your family!

snowcoveredcampsies · 21/03/2021 20:28

Unless that individual is completely cut off from society then it's not up to them to risk assess and make decisions based on that. That's not how contagious viruses work.

WouldBeGood · 21/03/2021 20:29

Vaccines work. Open up. Stop with the blame culture.

WouldBeGood · 21/03/2021 20:38

Good to see no arrests around the football

Scottishskifun · 21/03/2021 20:40

@snowcoveredcampsies

Unless that individual is completely cut off from society then it's not up to them to risk assess and make decisions based on that. That's not how contagious viruses work.
I know how contagious viruses work my DH has dealt with the stresses of covid for the past 12 months but I have also seen the countless Facebook pleas searching for people who have had mental breakdowns and often go to commit suicide which has been increasing.

Half the population is vaccinated including the most at risk people.
Everyone does a risk assessment from deciding to go to the shop to meeting someone for a walk.
I know from my DH job that supermarkets are always reported as a place where positive cases have been so I choose not to go and have local deliveries instead.
I choose to meet my friends for a walk and sit in their garden or have a cup of tea. I choose to send my son to nursery.

Unless you are staying in your house 24/7 and getting deliveries then you are also doing the same!
It's not for you or anyone else for that matter to judge others who do things for their survival and wellbeing. You get on with you!

WouldBeGood · 21/03/2021 20:42

It’s like AIDS in the 80s, with the ignorance, blame and fear.

snowcoveredcampsies · 21/03/2021 20:48

@WouldBeGood

It’s like AIDS in the 80s, with the ignorance, blame and fear.
It's absolutely nothing like the AIDS epidemic. Not even close.
WouldBeGood · 21/03/2021 20:53

There is the same terror of catching the virus from the “unclean” and the same blame on the spreaders.

And huge ignorance about how it is spread.

And in the case of Covid it’s far far less serious than HIV for the vast majority of people.

snowcoveredcampsies · 21/03/2021 20:55

@Scottishskifun almost everything you've listed there is allowed. If you 'risk assess' and decide to have folk over or flaunt rules in another way then I'm entitled to think you're selfish because these things are likely to increase the chance of infection.

I'll judge who I like thanks 👍🏻

Scottishskifun · 21/03/2021 20:55

The blame culture is pretty bad with covid.

All people I know who have had covid haven't broken rules they got it at work places or doing essential things still keeping distance masks still following the rules.
The govt doesn't focus on the number of cases caught from hospitals or work places because they don't want to scare people. But it's very narrow sighted to think that cases are driven solely by people rule breaking. It's a virus!

WouldBeGood · 21/03/2021 20:57

It’s flout, not flaunt.

UnderHisAye · 21/03/2021 20:57

I don't think anyone is under the impression that it's caught solely by rule breaking Confused

snowcoveredcampsies · 21/03/2021 20:58

@WouldBeGood

There is the same terror of catching the virus from the “unclean” and the same blame on the spreaders.

And huge ignorance about how it is spread.

And in the case of Covid it’s far far less serious than HIV for the vast majority of people.

This is so wrong as to be hugely insulting to any gay man who was unfortunate enough to have to live through what must have been complete hell.

Getting a bit pissy at rule breakers doesn't equate parents disowning their children, acts of brutal violence committed against gay men and people being openly fired from their jobs and ostracised from society.

snowcoveredcampsies · 21/03/2021 20:59

@WouldBeGood

It’s flout, not flaunt.
Hahaha it's either but thanks 👍🏻
Scottishskifun · 21/03/2021 21:01

I've suffered enough trauma as a direct result of covid rules thanks. So you can think I'm selfish all you like I do things to protect my mental health from deteriorating further, to try and work through PTSD of which a large contributing factor was the covid rules imposed by the hospital and if that means having a cup of tea with my friend in her house then I will happily be selfish!
But you judge away from your ivory tower

snowcoveredcampsies · 21/03/2021 21:02

@Scottishskifun

The blame culture is pretty bad with covid.

All people I know who have had covid haven't broken rules they got it at work places or doing essential things still keeping distance masks still following the rules.
The govt doesn't focus on the number of cases caught from hospitals or work places because they don't want to scare people. But it's very narrow sighted to think that cases are driven solely by people rule breaking. It's a virus!

Of course people catch it in all sorts of circumstances but the rule breakers don't help. The more people that break the rules the more that will follow bigger the knock on effect.

It's selfish whatever way you dress it up.

WouldBeGood · 21/03/2021 21:02

WouldBeGood
It’s flout, not flaunt.

Hahaha it's either but thanks 👍🏻

It’s really not

snowcoveredcampsies · 21/03/2021 21:05

@WouldBeGood

WouldBeGood It’s flout, not flaunt.

Hahaha it's either but thanks 👍🏻

It’s really not

If you're reduced to picking up what you perceive to be errors in other people's posts then I think it's fair to say that you no longer have a point to make.

I'm certainly not going to be lectured at by a person who is comparing this to the AIDS epidemic. 🤣

WouldBeGood · 21/03/2021 21:06

🤷🏻‍♀️

Scottishskifun · 21/03/2021 21:28

It's selfish whatever way you dress it up.

Wow I really hope that's not in response to my post about suffering from trauma as my god if it is you really don't understand empathy or any understanding of mental health issues.

House parties aside the vast majority of high cases comes from workplace outbreaks simple as that. Most of them don't make the news either!

Scottishskifun · 21/03/2021 21:30

Workplaces includes hospitals, prisons, essential services etc

MaxNormal · 21/03/2021 21:41

I'm so, so far beyond caring if people think I'm "selfish" because I've not followed the SG rules to the letter.

Every single person I know who has had covid, got it at work. It's really shitty making it a moral issue as a nudge unit population behavioural technique and we'll be dealing with the sociatal and psychological fall-out of that for a long time to come.

snowcoveredcampsies · 21/03/2021 21:44

No it was in response to your post that I quoted.

I do have empathy. This has been one of the worst years of my life. Been through a fair bit of trauma myself.

I understand why you would break the rules but I still find it a bit selfish. If everyone who suffered had friends round there would be no lockdown.

GoLightlyontheEarth · 21/03/2021 21:57

Actually one of the absolute worst things that has come out of this pandemic is seeing how nasty and judgemental people can be to each other. Hurling spiteful remarks around and calling others selfish. Some people have undoubtedly been very selfish. However the vast majority have tried their best under sometimes almost unimaginable strain and stress. Why can’t we support one another instead of reporting on neighbours and revelling in smugness?
The lives lost to suicide and the huge mental health toll are just as tragic, in fact perhaps more so, than those who have died of Covid itself.

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