The Tierany of Tiers

[dancemom]

Teirtastic times ahead ....

@snowcoveredcampsies I do know what information has been provided. I'm not stupid and I can read. I unfortunately (or fortunately?) come from a large family. So no I don't have any idea when it will be possible to meet up with my siblings and their families together. Yes I can meet up with them one at a time once we can travel outside our council areas. But I miss my family. My kids miss their cousins. And I know my parents do too.

Well @PoloMintPatty you can travel freely within Scotland from 26th of April so there you go. Something to look forward to.

[quote snowcoveredcampsies]@Scottishskifun I don't think you need to be a socialist to know right from wrong. [/quote]
It's not wrong to question or not follow something purely because it's been produced by the SG!
Nor is it wrong to want to see family and nor is it wrong to say it's taken too much of a toll on mental health I'm not going to follow every rule! The only difference between 15 people meeting for a walk and 3 families meeting for a walk is one group has done a free online course...... Yet one is allowed and one is illegal! 😂

Sorry I'm a bit narky today. Love seeing the sun but missing seeing people.

@Scottishskifun it's wrong to put yourself in the situation where you could infect someone else or be infected. Nothing to do with the SG.

@snowcoveredcampsies

Well *@PoloMintPatty* you can travel freely within Scotland from 26th of April so there you go. Something to look forward to.

Great so they've announced we can hit the islands too?

We are there.

@PoloMintPatty no afraid not. The islands quite rightly need to protect themselves a bit more given they don't have the infrastructure to properly deal with outbreaks.

You'll just need to wait sadly.

Ah I thought I had genuinely missed that.

Fingers crossed that will be soon

Well being outside with multiple loved ones from multiple households would from all I've read to be an absolutely tiny risk to all concerned (barring frostbite.)

@PoloMintPatty

Ah I thought I had genuinely missed that.

Fingers crossed that will be soon

Fingers crossed for you too. I also have family on the islands. Looking forward very much to getting there.

Not that they want visitors just now. I'd be ostracised in the shop if I attempted to go just now! 🤣🙈

[quote snowcoveredcampsies]@Scottishskifun it's wrong to put yourself in the situation where you could infect someone else or be infected. Nothing to do with the SG.

[/quote]
Lucky I don't go to the supermarket then or currently have any hospital appointments given these are by far the highest mentioned settings for where people who have tested positive have been! 😂

The hospital appointments are my biggest worry.

They've never been the cleanest of places ime.

Well hospital transmission has always been a problem and most folk for to the supermarket so I'm not really surprised by this.

The supermarket thing is a bit of a red herring imo.

Track and trace will ask people where they have been and for most people it's safe to say you've been in the supermarket. They may have also have been round at auntie betty's for a catch up and your cousin popped in to see his mum after his night shift in the warehouse. Or you briefly pop into see Bob over the road who's just got out of hospital to see how he is and to help out his wife by taking the dog for a walk a couple of times a day. But you know none of that was allowed so you keep quiet about that and so it gets badged as supermarket.

@WaxOnFeckOff supermarkets its a numbers thing purely down to the number through the doors. Also with nothing open people have taken to browsing the supermarket more. There was a reason for a while they gave the message try and reduce shopping trips!
Most people are honest with track and trace as they then have to say to aunt Betty!
Track and trace are clear it's important to get the right information not for them to judge 😊

@RaindropsSplashRainbows

The hospital appointments are my biggest worry.

It's due to the number of people in and out. Depending on which hospital the ventilation can be a bit of a issue. We use surgical masks whenever we go to the Dr's etc if I know I have to go to the hospital and will be a while then I use a FFP2 mask

[quote snowcoveredcampsies]@PoloMintPatty no afraid not. The islands quite rightly need to protect themselves a bit more given they don't have the infrastructure to properly deal with outbreaks.

You'll just need to wait sadly. [/quote]
I thought NS said she (well, the SG) were going to consult with the islands as to what they wanted, rather than impose something on them. Their case numbers etc may mean they could go to tier 2 from 26th April, and so have a bit more flexibility in terms of hospitality, number of people outside etc. But if they did that, they wouldn't be allowed tourists/ visitors from the mainland, who would want to go there for the novelty of an evening meal in a restaurant. If they stayed in tier 3 visits from the mainland would be allowed, but they'd be in the same restrictions as the mainland too.

Has that conversation been had? Or has it just been decided that they need extra protection so islanders can't have their mainlander families over from April? (Seems like quite a quick conversation if it has already taken place!)

Things have been pretty harsh for them - they aren't even allowed between islands at the moment even though many are in tier 3 already - so I can see why many would want more freedom within their own community. But also many may want the freedom to go elsewhere in Scotland or have visitors/ family too. So quite a tricky conversation with lots of stakeholders I'd have thought.

I'm still unsure why, morally, it's wrong to spread a virus you don't know you have. Of course we all might have it... but our children also might have chickenpox (if they haven't already had it) and be super infectious before the spots come out, or we may have a cold or flu and be infectious before we feel grotty. I know covid isn't the same as those, but the point remains- no one (apart from true pillocks) sets out to catch or spread an illness. And it's never been a moral failing before now to accidentally spread it or to insist on total isolation from loved ones outside your home just in case you do. Pre vaccine I can kind of understand, given its higher fatality rate than other viruses, but at some point that blame viewpoint is going to need to stop, surely?

@ResilienceWanker yes at some point but that point isn't now. More people need vaccinated.

The whole point of all this is that we should all be acting as if we do have it so that we can stop the spread.

I do think it's immoral if I'm honest to go and socialise and risk people.

I am coming at this though having known two people in their early fifties who have died needlessly, one with no underlying health conditions and one other with a health condition that should have seen them live a long and relatively normal life. Another woman, who I don't know but knew of, was 43 and died leaving 4 children.

As you said, it's not the chicken pox.

A ward in St Andrew's has closed due to a cluster of cases, and in the same article it's suggested that NHS Fife is aware of cases arising from indoor gatherings in recent weeks.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/fife/2059648/covid-19-st-andrews-community-hospital-ward-closed-to-new-admissions-following-virus-cluster/

As much as people want their actions to be only their individual choice, I don't think that is going to work with a more transmissible virus. And going 'well I would have stuck to the rules but I was pissed off at the government' is so self defeating, that line of argument is driving me nuts.

It’s worth remembering that some people are finding lockdown much harder than others. If you live alone and work from home , without any family bubble or friends you can meet even for a walk, this must be absolute hell. Others have partners or family living with them, friends they can meet or are still going out to work. Some people are really suffering with loneliness and isolation and every day of this is another metaphorical nail in the coffin. Don’t judge those who just cannot take anymore.

Well yes of course it's easier for some than others. I know of five people who have died by suicide in the last 10 months.

It still doesn't change the fact that if, say, 30% of the population give up on the restrictions, that is going to increases cases by a lot, which is going to mean restrictions are in place for longer.

@ResilienceWanker unfortunately the govt has conditioned us to think that the only people who catch covid are "rule breakers" those in society who have never listened, don't wash hands and carried on regardless.

This simply is untrue many people have caught the virus simply by going to work, attending the hospital, supermarket or doing basic tasks.
Yes there are cases associated with houseparties which I don't agree with. But the govt underplayed the risk associated with lack of ventilation and small particle build up. Probably so not to scare people but it's a big problem!
As I've said previously my DH does covid response he has dealt with multiple businesses who have every control measure in place but ventilation is a issue and they have multiple outbreaks. Just like big outbreaks occur with fish and meat processing places due to the cold temps which have to be kept by air systems.

But the govt cannot say the risk is in everyday society going about essential tasks so they focus only on people meeting more than one or two others outside because they cannot do anything about the others!

You can have every control measure in place but until you lock everyone in their houses for a 4 week period and deliver food to them you are never going to get rid of cases it will continue even at low levels.

@UnderHisAye. I don’t think people are breaking rules in a way that causes outbreaks in most cases, just making perfectly sensible decisions like it’s fine to meet up with my sisters family for a walk even though her children are over 12 so that takes up over the four “adults” that are allowed to meet. I do follow rules to the most part and I’m more cautious than needs be at times, I work from home, all my food is delivered etc etc but if I want my nieces to come on a family walk with me I think that’s perfectly fine and frankly much more reasonable than leaving them at home or sending them off to meet more people (more risk) separately.
I think in most cases it’s just these sort of decisions people are making for themselves now and I can’t bring myself to care if that’s wrong or right.