The Tierany of Tiers

[dancemom]

Teirtastic times ahead ....

I merely gave the bus example of one case where policy has not been thought through

It’s of no consequence anyway, as case numbers don’t matter. Hospitals are fine, let’s get going!

Maybe the policy has been thought through and they are expecting people to be honest and quarantine for the greater good rather than to try and find the loopholes and exploit it?

@Icannever

That is not what I said

It's exactly what you said.

@WouldBeGood

It’s of no consequence anyway, as case numbers don’t matter. Hospitals are fine, let’s get going!

Very true! The end is in sight.

Not a loophole, there were no flights into Scotland because of quarantine hotels. where would they self isolate other than their own home? To get there they had to take public transport which is allowed.

Ok I've been googling antibody rates in the nations and the herald reported 5 days ago that Scotland had the lowest estimated antibody rate in UK.
Makes some sense to me.

It's still a loophole. One that the airlines are exploiting if not the individuals.

If the individuals themselves still make that choice to fly knowing that they will then have to sit on a bus for 8 hours then I don't think that's particularly responsible. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Don't travel unless absolutely essential. Unless someone is dying and you have to see them then I don't think that's really so hard tbh.

@RaindropsSplashRainbows

Ok I've been googling antibody rates in the nations and the herald reported 5 days ago that Scotland had the lowest estimated antibody rate in UK. Makes some sense to me.

Yes it does.

Lower rate of natural immunity. This thing is just a never ending hell.

Isn't it just.

Nobody is really just having holidays with flights at the moment! There are many valid reasons for getting a flight including people who are working.

I find it a bit ironic on here that people seem a bit arsey that Scotland currently is showing a higher rate. Its like it can't possibly happen because we have been told that it's only England who have crazy high rates and are riddled Scotland can't possibly be doing badly..... 🙄

There are several factors and unlikely to be solely down to schools
A big factor is that England have the eyes on the prize of end of June so many are sticking tightly to the rules
Scotland is still having large outbreaks at workplaces
We have 2 University student outbreaks
Glasgow levels increased with rangers football match (probably more having the mates around to watch the footy then being in a square)

Unfortunately the SG messaging isn't giving people much hope and people are fatigued with restrictions so have laxed on many areas and I don't blame them.

You increase compliance with a carrot not a stick!

Maybe our numbers are worse as our vaccine programme is slower?

I don’t think it’s in any way weird or unreasonable to want to travel.

Too much drama now for the current risks.

It's unreasonable to want to travel when there's a global pandemic.

Traceable antibodies are estimated to be found for circa 6 months after infection it's not a suprise antibody rates are lower as infection rates from November were lower as we didn't have high levels of the new variant.

We are also behind in vaccinations and whilst only a small percentage that equates to a lot of people all of which adds up to more infections as well as the outbreaks etc.

It was just an example! I wasn’t defending them just saying what happened. It doesn’t matter if it’s what should happen or not, it’s what is happening. I was just saying that at times very strict policies can have undesirable and unintended consequences

(Just for reference, They had been away for a long time and they had to fly back to Scotland in March because Brexit means only 90 days from jan 1st allowed. Which is a reason a huge amount of people will have had to return for just in time for the quarantine hotels. They tried to fly back earlier and to Scotland but all those flights were cancelled.)

@Scottishskifun so you're saying that people in Scotland who don't agree with the guidelines are ignoring the rules and pushing up the infection rate?

There could be some truth in that. You're probably right.

It's a bit sad that some folk need babied in order to follow the rules tbh though. Also a bit sad that people would jeopardise others just because they don't like the way a message is delivered. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@snowcoveredcampsies I'm saying that research always shows people are more compliant with following the rules if they think they will get a reward at the end of it.

England = carrot - End of June aim with events being spoken about, restrictions not based on test positivity rate

Scotland = stick - keep following the rules or nothing gets slackened off and back to Tier system which uses test positivity rate.

Throw in people are fatigued then yes people need the carrot approach (it's also usually found in social behaviour experiments as well!)

It's not a case of being babied many people in Scotland disagree that elimination is possible (along with many scientists) so don't trust the SG to do what's best for the economy and simply follow their strategy at any cost. That would have worked 12 months ago but not now people are tired.

We've been through what elimination means several times on mumsnet. It doesn't mean an expectation of 0 cases.

The SG route map out of lockdown is very simple to follow.

I think that is very condescending and patronising @snowcoveredcampsies.
People don’t need babied, they need hope. That is a perfectly reasonable human response after a truly awful year. A lot of peoples mental health is at an all time low and you calling them babies is hardly helpful.
Also it’s not how the message is delivered, it is the actual message

The SG route map out of lockdown is very simple to follow.

Thanks for that! I didn't realise Scotland was totally free of restrictions on 26th April

I'm on my way up from Englandshire that day! Can't wait to see my family

@StarryEyeSurprise

We've been through what elimination means several times on mumsnet. It doesn't mean an expectation of 0 cases.

The SG route map out of lockdown is very simple to follow.

This was only delivered this week though which to many people was way too late and after weeks of saying they weren't going to give dates they were going to a regional system etc etc. They did a massive u turn probably as they realised people weren't listening!

Driving to a as low as possible elimination strategy whilst not zero is for many people a recognised unachievable pie in the sky target. Many many scientists are stating that we haven't to learn to live with the virus. I expect that we will get to a point and the SG give up on it then blame others for not following their strategy and none of the consequences are there fault!

I would love absolutely love this virus to disappear. Unfortunately from reading the research its not going to happen anytime soon (years BTW not months) it mutates too quickly. It's not like a stable virus which can be targeted quickly and lifetime protection from one injection like measles.

Unfortunately the SG keeps giving this rhetoric not thinking that people do read journals, studies, different scientists opinions and form their own opinion.

Meanwhile the economic damage will last decades and mental health damage years. Sorry but that's too high a price to many especially now the most at risk are vaccinated.

Scottishskifun I've ended thinking the same way re the SG.

I also think they are too scared to mention the lifestyle connection to diet and exercise.

I know age is the most important risk. But even that is somewhat mitigated by good metabolic health.