The Tierany of Tiers

[dancemom]

Teirtastic times ahead ....

I do get that there is less hospital provision in the islands but there is also less covid, and less risk of catching it.

My frustration is mainly Glasgow has been under restrictions for months longer than any of the islands. Yet the islands are ahead in the vaccine.

I said weeks ago they should focus on getting Glasgow and the high covid areas done first. But it seems the most densely populated, most at risk areas are behind in the rollout.

Where is the fair in that?

I've also said they should do the prisons to reduce spread there too.

I get both of those points but I then come back to the need to reduce deaths and hospitalisations. Both of those occur more in the older age groups, so in the end it makes most sense to follow that. Incidence in the community at younger levels shouldn't be a factor in the restrictions though and that's the problem.

@Scottishskifun - frustrating isn’t it? I’ve heard from people that have been to TECA and those in smaller community settings that there are plenty vaccinators, facilities etc. the issue seems to be supply. I was a bit sceptical at the outset as NHS Grampian do seem to struggle to recruit but I can’t see why people wouldn’t tell the truth of the matter. I have heard a few instances of vaccinators doing their absolute best to get in touch with people at the end of the day to use up the “spare” doses so that’s encouraging. That’s how my parents got theirs.

I don't have an issue with the islands being vaccinated first, really. Yes, overall the programme should focus on those likely to get sickest, but the comparative numbers involved are tiny, and the extra resource on the NHS if people do need hospital care or extra support (even "young, healthy" islanders) is much more than a "central-belter". I think when the vaccine was first being rolled out, there were teams of doctors and nurses being sent to remote areas to do the handful of over 80s in the area, because they were sticking firmly to the book, and that seemed very silly. Why they couldn't have just covered everyone (or everyone in phase 1) over a couple of days is beyond me. Then they could have (in the nicest possible way!) been forgotten about and resources focused on higher density and higher infection areas.

I don't think it's right to characterise the success of the islands as being down to the stoicism and compliance of the populations compared to the snowflake Edinburghers complaining about crossing their city though! It's obviously a very different way of life, and if you're used to services being remote, difficult to access and provided at inconvenient times there will be a bit more tolerance of that fitting into daily life (from employers and others, as well as the person needing those services). People base their lives around their usual circumstances, so when that is taken away or changed (from local, walkable health services, to a centralised system, with minimal/ expensive parking and sparse direct public transport access) it can be very difficult to adapt. Also, I bet it's quicker to travel 40 miles on remote roads sometimes than to cross Edinburgh on a bus!

@Lockdownbear Glasgow is ahead of Aberdeen and Edinburgh and had vaccination centres set up quickly. Grampian in comparison took weeks to set up and now many of the community centres have been shut for periods of time in the last few weeks or reduced days. Glasgow needs attention to why the numbers are so high and to be specifically targeted which I've said in the past.

@florafoxtrot its massively frustrating as we were slow to set up and get going and now slow in delivering. I don't know why supplies for Grampian are lower than other parts of the country Dundee in comparison is 10% ahead!
I know Grampian were giving demographic as one of the reasons but there are plenty old folk in my town and I know of at risk people who still haven't got their jabs.
I am 5 minutes away from our local vaccination centre I would be there in a heartbeat if someone called as I'm asthmatic but they changed to criteria so I fell off the list despite getting flu jabs as I'm at risk....... 🙄

Any appointment news today @Windyone ?

@Lockdownbear yes you've been in lockdown for months, I get your frustration but rural areas are frustrated too - we had no cases for 5 weeks (now have 6 in a week) and still could only meet 2 people in our gardens and cafes shut at 6. I'm not even allowed to get the 15 minute ferry to visit pals who live on the island I can see from my house! At least on the mainland you have freedom to travel within your local authority. Why are we living like this in no or low covid areas?

We seem to be being punished because infections aren't under control in urban areas. Given that my nearest train station is in Bergen, Norway. I'm getting sick of having to do things because of the central belt. Just as I'm sure you'd not be happy if your restrictions were based on what's happening in London!

They don't know how getting both jags impacts covid transmission. So who knows how we'll be living this year?

@ResilienceWanker the rural boards have a far higher take up of the vaccination than Lothian and Glasgow according to the returns. That can be for a number of reasons, especially fear due to misinformation on social media, but all I see on Mumsnet is folk complaining they are not been sent to their nearest centre.

It'll be about 90minutes in mainland Shetland on bus. Unfortunately there's only a bus at 7:30am then returning home on the 5pm bus. But still people in there 70s without family are doing it. The Red Cross aren't able to provide cars to attend medical appointments up here so it's either share a car, taxi or take public transport.

At least on the mainland you have freedom to travel within your local authority. Why are we living like this in no or low covid areas?

Travel within our local authority is no mainland bonus. The opposite in fact. Also note, many of us are living in areas where there’s been no community breakout at all over the past year- as is the case across the UK- yet we’ve all been subject to the same mostly arbitrary restrictions as the rest of mainland Scotland. My DH has his vaccine app next week and as he said himself, he’d rather ensure those needing it more than him are done first, but you just have to trust that’s the case in your local authority when you turn up on the day.

I get that @Bytheloch folk living in Callander and lochearnhead don't want people from Fallin and Plean visiting them and spreading covid, but it's utterly hellish on the mental health living somewhere where you can't travel 2miles to see family and friends. It's the unfairness of it all that's getting to me now. She still hasn't announced what our route map out of this is - the mainlands has been realised but we are still in limbo (apart from the fact there's a fucking cruise ship coming in May 🤦‍♀️)

@UnderHisAye I’ve not heard so called up and spoke to a very nice lady. She said it’s taking longer than 72 hours to allocate appointments. I should hear over the weekend. If not I’ve to call back on Monday.

[quote Windyone]@UnderHisAye I’ve not heard so called up and spoke to a very nice lady. She said it’s taking longer than 72 hours to allocate appointments. I should hear over the weekend. If not I’ve to call back on Monday.[/quote]
Ah. That's a shame but at least you know you're in the system and it shouldn't be too long.

Health Secretary Jeane Freeman confirms that 655 people tested positive for Covid-19 on Thursday, which amounts to 2.9% of all tests.
Ms Freeman says its takes the total number of confirmed cases in Scotland to 212,509.
Of the new cases, 162 were in NHS Greater Glasgow & Clyde, 134 in NHS Lanarkshire and 138 in NHS Lothian.
The remaining cases were spread across eight other mainland health boards areas.
Ms Freeman also says 397 patients are in hospital with a confirmed case (down eight) and 35 people are being treated in intensive care (down three).
She adds that a further eight people who tested positive in the previous 28 days have had their deaths registered, bringing the total under the daily measurement to 7,554.

The total number of vaccinations carried out yesterday was 52,793.

MrsA - isn't that because she wanted to find out what the islanders wanted before she announced you guys could travel and receive travellers? I mean, she should have had that conversation a while ago, but hopefully if the feeling is that you guys are happy to receive people, then it will go ahead?

What does make sense to me, and it was silly not to think of it, is if there is a certain number of vaccines per batch that's easy to transport, and it arrives in a rural area, then of course, they should just use it up as quick as possible, and maybe not have a trickle of smaller loads being carted around the country as we ensure each age group is done evenly.

I should add, I know someone who is desperate to go to a certain group of islands on a special trip at the end of May. So I am very keen for it to be allowed!

It does seem that what we have learned from the thread is that the people on the helpline are lovely 😊

@MrsAmaretto you've taken chatty comments on Lothian's organisation out of context.
Given our geography and the prevalence of Covid the sending elderly across the health board area when there are closer centres to them was taken up and quite rightly by the local MSP.

I'm not impressed by your superiority.

@RaindropsSplashRainbows lol, I didn't realise I was coming across as "superior". I'm quite baffled. Though I will be feeling very superior in 15 minutes when I'm finished at the hairdressers

I'm fed up of living like this when we have low or no covid infections, no hospitalisations and high rates of vaccinations. Our population is by and large following the rules as requested by the government, rolling our sleeves up, as requested to be vaccinated and geographically isolated - yet it makes no difference to the restrictions we face?

@speedtalker yes that's now what has come out in a press release. That she wants to look into travel in and out of the isles. Though I don't see how it affects when our internal restrictions can be lifted and why she can't say when cafes will be open past 6 o'clock. I do wonder if she forgot we were under Teir 3 when she made her big roadmap announcement on that Tuesday.

Yes, if I was in rural Shetland with almost no cases I'd be pissed off at the continued restrictions. I can totally understand that.

But also, I'd feel safe getting a bus for 90 minutes (and it can easily take that long to cross a city - let alone do some of the journeys within Lothians that we were talking about on public transport), and would treat it as a day out if I needed to be there all day for the return journey. In level 3 you can potter around the shops, have lunch with a friend, go to the library, schedule a haircut, have coffee and have your jab in among that all. And with low incidences, that would all feel quite safe...unlike in the central belt where none of that is allowed, and even the bus trip is disapproved of, let alone getting lifts with neighbours and so on.

I can see the community being quite split over the next steps, though. It sounds like if you stay in level 3 you can have tourists, but if you move to level 2 and have more freedom locally, you won't be able to have unrestricted travel to and from the mainland. So businesses will lose out, but there will be more socialising allowed. Bit of a poor choice, I'd have thought - and one that runs the risk of dividing the community? Presumably why NS doesn't want to make it herself.

My DB and his wife live on the east side of edinburgh and their appointments were out at Ingliston. They drive and have a car, it wasn't an issue. I can imagine if you are poorly off and in in similar circs, getting there would not feel particularly achievable. Especially if you have other caring responsibilities and you have to time 2 or 3 different buses in order to arrive on time with not too much hanging about.

The cases highlighted that I saw were elderly from Livingston, which is a fairly big centre in West Lothian (WL has had its own vaccination hubs) directed over to Leith.

There had been no issue either with low take up on Lothian. It's been a low offer, unless you count in the no shows who had not received their postal invite until after the due date. The lazy central belters that they are!,😉😂

[quote MrsAmaretto]@Lockdownbear yes you've been in lockdown for months, I get your frustration but rural areas are frustrated too - we had no cases for 5 weeks (now have 6 in a week) and still could only meet 2 people in our gardens and cafes shut at 6. I'm not even allowed to get the 15 minute ferry to visit pals who live on the island I can see from my house! At least on the mainland you have freedom to travel within your local authority. Why are we living like this in no or low covid areas?

We seem to be being punished because infections aren't under control in urban areas. Given that my nearest train station is in Bergen, Norway. I'm getting sick of having to do things because of the central belt. Just as I'm sure you'd not be happy if your restrictions were based on what's happening in London!

They don't know how getting both jags impacts covid transmission. So who knows how we'll be living this year? [/quote]
I live 10miles from my mum, I've not legally had a coffee with her since September, excluding Christmas Day.

The illogical stuff is we can meet legally in some parks but not others. Ones that are close enough to the boundary.

I don't understand why travel between the Islands in the the same LA is restricted. What's the logic in that?

It shouldn't be a city vs rural but its frustrating when the Isles with zero covid and cafes open are ahead on the vaccine.

I tell you good job Glasgow is at least ahead of Edinburgh or I'd be really pissed off.

Well, yes. If we were serious about it we'd all have a direct link to the NHS database in our phones and be checking it daily to make sure we knew about any appointments that happened to have been made for us... We just can't be bothered to learn to mind read either.

@Lockdownbear I think the argument is that they are vulnerable due to their isolation? People coming from the "dirty" bigger island might spread covid and they might only have a doctor, or in some cases a nurse or some places don't have either. Maybe it's so the emergency services aren't overwhelmed? But they don't have cafes on those islands so I don't know how people are isolating?

In fair isle the islanders have decided anyone returning from mainland Shetland must self isolate for 2 weeks to keep the population safe.

I do kind of understand the smaller islands in a storm there is no way off and sometimes the coastguard can't do emmergency evacuations. To be v v poorly with no or limited medical care and covid would be truly awful, doesn't bare thinking about.

Interestingly, and really heartbreakingly, many men from Fair Isle died from things like measles, flu etc compared to warfare in WW1. They had no natural antibodies due to isolation and caught it on the troops ships from shetland, troop trains and at training camps. So although the vaccinations are going slowly, medical science really is amazing.