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To InfiniTier and beyond ....

978 replies

dancemom · 02/03/2021 13:15

Tiers, tiers and more tears ....

OP posts:
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12
ResilienceWanker · 10/03/2021 19:47

I've been away from the threads for a bit, trying to get something done In Real Life... But we don't seem to have moved on much from when I was last here, basically!

I do think there may be a move to try to open things up a bit quicker than the provisional dates given. So the 4 adults thing was "scheduled" for 15th March and we're getting it on the 12th (a whole 3 days early!) and I do think the tiers may move forwards a bit in a pre election show of magnanimity... Maybe to mid rather than end of April, when the schools are back properly? Though in the central belt, I don't think that'll be much good for us really, as we still won't be able to do anything. Getting fed up with it now, as I know everyone is. But even with general rule breaking and whatnot, hospitalisations and deaths are still decreasing, and even cases. Likely as a result of the vaccine as much as anything, but even so, I'm not sure how much longer "people" will accept restrictions like we have had. It just seems disproportionate.

On the elimination thing, I looked back at the panel report, and it does say NZ adopted an elimination (not exclusion) strategy, though I assume they kind of used a mixture of the two in practice. But "elimination" as defined in the report is very much "keep it down to basically zero and don't let it in again". So that is long term travel restrictions (presumably from countries without the same strategy, so that would include England, even if "legally" that can't be done) , quarantine hotels and so on, which is a grim thought. I really can't see us locking down the entire country (or council areas?) for a handful of cases as they do in NZ.

In any case, someone really needs to think up a better name for the strategies to "sell" them to the public! I don't really care if elimination is epidemiological jargon for "just at a very low level" (which it may or may not be). That sounds like it should be called suppression to me. Elimination sounds like they are aiming to get rid of it totally, which I think most people will think, and most people will think that is not feasible. And surely all our hands face space/ facts stuff is mitigation against the effects of the virus... And that's not just to protect the vulnerable at all. It just seems they haven't really put much thought into communicating the strategy stuff to the public, and have just cobbled together some public health terms that don't mean what the average person on the street thinks they should mean, and say "right, this is what we're doing". No wonder we're all confused and conflicted and giving up.

To InfiniTier and beyond ....
WouldBeGood · 10/03/2021 19:48

@OldRailer

As noted .easles is lifelong immunity from disease or immunisation. A very different kettle of fish. This follows Jason Leitch referring to the smallpox eradication programme. I'm done listening to SG (I don't know what they are playing at) and just follow virologists online at this point.
Me too
Flossy05 · 10/03/2021 19:55

I’m struggling with the analogy to measles too- it doesn’t make sense to me for the reasons others have said. I’m not a virologist but I do have a degree in microbiology. Keep
thinking I must have missed something Confused

anon444877 · 10/03/2021 19:56

Weren't we having virtually the same conversations this time last year? Certainly by the start of the end of the first lock down...it's a sign of how little things have moved on for anyone.

OldRailer · 10/03/2021 19:57

I don't think you have. I'm only a chemist. But I've had a year to brush up!😂

WouldBeGood · 10/03/2021 19:59

No, I’m scientifically illiterate, but all the virologists and doctors are saying it’s a ludicrous analogy

AgentCooper · 10/03/2021 20:00

@ResilienceWanker you’re so right - it has all become so confusing and impenetrable, not helped by the differences between what we and England are doing. DH and I were talking about this today, we’re not 100% sure what you’re allowed to do at this stage, none of us can be arsed finding out, so we do nothing. There’s none of that sense of let’s just do the right thing and get through this shite like there was before. It’s easier to just do nothing. It all feels so bleak right now.

ResilienceWanker · 10/03/2021 20:07

Precisely! There's a stay at home order, so we're only allowed to leave the house for essential purposes, except now (well, from Friday) going to sit in someone's garden can be an essential reason, when it wasn't last week, unless you were giving emotional support... WTAF? It is totally easier to stay at home. Particularly as it's pissing it down and there's nothing fun we can do that involves being out of the rain. Apart from going to sainsburys, and that's hardly fun.

WouldBeGood · 10/03/2021 20:11

I go everywhere possible

Scottishskifun · 10/03/2021 20:13

Thanks @resiliencewanker so I take back my post earlier it was given as an example 😂

Yeah I'm pretty much where you are. We are basically waiting for England to open up and then will go visit family. I think the SG know they will struggle with "control" at that point. Nobody will listen to the lectures anymore!

We have a cottage booked for mid June in Scotland so will see what happens with that. We are in the North East so mostly been lower numbers.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 10/03/2021 20:14

@WouldBeGood

No, I’m scientifically illiterate, but all the virologists and doctors are saying it’s a ludicrous analogy
I'm a working scientist with a couple of dozen papers in various fields, who spent a few years in a virology institute, and I concur that it's a ludicrous analogy!
AgentCooper · 10/03/2021 20:18

@WouldBeGood

I go everywhere possible
@WouldBeGood I did at first too. I was furloughed with/because of my toddler and don’t drive so I basically forced him to explore every single street in our area, multiple times. Then when I could go back to work I started swimming again and that was great. But right now I just can’t be arsed. I have never, ever been a stay at home type but it just feels like there’s nowhere to go and nothing to do Sad Like how many photos of the same tree can I take? I don’t like this version of me very much. I do love our weekly drive to Irvine Beach and takeaway from the taco truck though (which would be illegal were we not visiting recently widowed MIL).
WouldBeGood · 10/03/2021 20:28

It’s not exciting, @AgentCooper. I book click and collect shopping in different places and go a wander. Go drives to places I haven’t been. Order meals for collection.

I’m glad that last year I did the opera, cafes, restaurants, France, hotels, England on trips when it was allowed

Scottishskifun · 10/03/2021 20:31

@Flossy05

I’m struggling with the analogy to measles too- it doesn’t make sense to me for the reasons others have said. I’m not a virologist but I do have a degree in microbiology. Keep thinking I must have missed something Confused
Yep it doesn't make sense! It's been over 10 years since I studied human health modules as part of my degree but I still remember how vaccines worked and why some diseases were possible to nearly eradicate and others are very difficult/impossible! Measles, smallpox and polio were always used as the examples of successful vaccination programmes but because they don't mutate it lasts!
OldRailer · 10/03/2021 20:45

I may start listening again as I'm now intrigued as to SG communication strategy!

GirlLovesWorld · 10/03/2021 20:56

Irvine Beach! That just reminds me of going to see Oasis there in the 90s; I was near the front and got lifted out of my shoes when they came on stage, then spent the gig snogging the face off the guy next to me.

Classy Grin

PoloMintPatty · 10/03/2021 21:05

@GirlLovesWorld

Irvine Beach! That just reminds me of going to see Oasis there in the 90s; I was near the front and got lifted out of my shoes when they came on stage, then spent the gig snogging the face off the guy next to me.

Classy Grin

What a gig and a memory. Wish i'd been there.

Golden times. Oasis are absolute 90s for me.

ProvisionallyAnxious · 10/03/2021 22:53

Imagine snogging the face off a random stranger. I mean I don't think DH would be too impressed if I did that now Grin but just the thought of a world where you can be in a crowd of people getting carried away..

I miss hugging friends and family but weirdly I also miss random touches from acquaintances or even people you don't know - someone tapping you on the shoulder to get your attention.

GirlLovesWorld · 10/03/2021 23:26

I know. I was just talking to my daughter about the 90s. It was so full of hope. The end of communism, the fall of the Berlin Wall, Clinton and Blair felt like the beginning of something new and better. Female guitar bands! Female singers who wore clothes in their videos.

And now look where we are. A government that would criminalise us for things we say in our own homes, and which has no desire to see women protected in the same way as the rest of society.

I am fucking sick tonight. Having a good cry alone in my room. I feel quite hopeless.

anon444877 · 11/03/2021 07:29

Hope you're feeling a bit brighter girl I'm often wishing for a time travel machine back to the 90s. I never thought I'd end up being against 'hate crime' legislation either or see a green msp losing his party over rape victims being allowed a say in who their doctor is.

AgentCooper · 11/03/2021 07:51

@GirlLovesWorld

Irvine Beach! That just reminds me of going to see Oasis there in the 90s; I was near the front and got lifted out of my shoes when they came on stage, then spent the gig snogging the face off the guy next to me.

Classy Grin

I’m pretty sure BIL ended up in the cells after that very gig Grin it wasn’t the first time and wouldn’t be the last...

The beach has really been cleaned up in the last decade or so. There’s an amazing wee taco truck run by a woman from New Mexico, lovely ice cream parlour a bit up the road. I would strongly recommend when we’re allowed out again (or would lend out my wee MIL to anyone who needs an excuse to go just now - she’s lovely and full of good chat).

GirlLovesWorld · 11/03/2021 09:03

Haven't listened to this myself yet but it looks like it might explain the strategies and some of the thinking around 'zero Covid' as we were discussing that yesterday on here.

Unfortunately it feature the devil incarnate Devi Sridhar - you know the one who brainwashed me because I'm a fucking simpleton.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/1JdESz9W2pnRzUSlQbdlZ9?si=l_nBW2uUQ0qvhjHReBfAxQ&nd=1

MaxNormal · 11/03/2021 09:46

So any of us here in greater Glasgow are likely going to be still stuck in Tier 3, basically like things are now but with the odd wee trip to Primark or Ikea (and even that presumably pushing it if it's not in council area) in May when people in England are potentially jetting off to Greece and Cyprus?
That's going to be.... quite some contrast.

mibbelucieachwell · 11/03/2021 09:58

And we should be happy to comply with this because the government has changed its mind. HmmSG could have closed borders, enforced supervised quarantine, increased testing last March, but it didn't. Now when hospital admissions are lower and falling the only people allowed to do what they like are football fans.

mibbelucieachwell · 11/03/2021 09:59

Damn. I meant to say now when hospital admissions are lower and falling and the most vulnerable demographic is mostly vaccinated .....

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