Tiers until the end of time

[runningpink]

Quickly putting this up as last thread is full

Some nastiness towards posters on these threads who want to question the Scottish government line.

Same. Even if we don't feel all doom and gloom. Yesterday we got snarky comments about being 'cheerleaders' because we dared to point out that we just have to put some things off until more people are vaccinated.

Yes, I'm sick of the rhetoric that if you say you're struggling or hate the restricted way of life, with no prospect of return to normal, then you're in some way either a rabid covid denier, or weak-willed.

Bollocks.

I think enforced positivity in our present circumstances is distasteful but hey ho each to his or her own.

Anyway scroll on by is the best policy!

They love a wee scrap.

They?

@anon444877

Ha the Daily Mail is trying to force Boris to open faster by picking on the vague claim that shops may be faster here. Hardly unbiased.

They are having a laugh, non-essential click and collect nonessential never stopped in England. Just like nurseries they kept them open.

I'm you can can also collect your chippy inside in England but it's far to dangerous to venture inside the chippy door to collect your deep fried mars bar.

Who's enforcing positivity? Is it deemed acceptable if I myself happen to feel positive, and that is reflected in my posts and in my tone?

The amount of 'cases' or level of infection in the community becomes irrelevant if its not causing high levels of hospitalisation and death FROM covid. People will continue to die from many things while covid positive. We need to quickly get to a point where we stop testing and follow what is obvious in hospitals etc with people suffering covid illnesses or we are going to be stuck in an irrelevant testing and lock down cycle.

I used to find MN quite a supportive space to post stuff but ever since Covid came along - less so. I try not to get drawn into making comments that could be seen as a dig at other posters because you often don't know the full story, nor do you how someone is feeling at the particular point in time.

And it also seems that the art of debate has been lost during this pandemic. I feel that if you can't speak freely on an anonymous forum god help us as a society

@GirlLovesWorld

Same. Even if we don't feel all doom and gloom. Yesterday we got snarky comments about being 'cheerleaders' because we dared to point out that we just have to put some things off until more people are vaccinated.

I don't mind putting some things off til more vaccinations.

I do mind moving the goal posts on the tier levels not being clear about this in a briefing, sticking it in a 94page document and using levels indicators from November which doesn't take into account vaccination levels....... But hey maybe I expect too much to highlight clear communication of how things will move forward!

Page 57 onwards if you wish to read it for yourself.

Of course you can speak freely but people will respond freely. That's kind of the point of a discussion surely.

There's nothing wrong with trying to look at the positives and suggesting that you might find people's reactions to be a bit over the top. Ignore and scroll on or engage with your own point of view 🤷🏻‍♀️

But your daily express snark came right after someone had posted about small businesses closing and I'd posted about the WHO criteria. So it looked like you were just trying to shut any negative comments down

I don't credit myself with that power and neither should you. It was merely a snarky comment and it was directed at the woe is me post that suggested there is no light at the end of the tunnel, it will be like this forever, the theatre will never open back up etc etc

If you look through the thread you will see many snarky comments. Most snarking about how ridiculous the government is. How much of a cow NS is etc etc.

It is my opinion nothing more. Certainly not a shut down.

I've read some of it @Scottishskifun but lost the will to live a little.

I'm honestly kind of okay with things being open-ended right now. I get that it can't really be otherwise. I think Boris' dates might come back and bite him on the bum; I don't want that to be the case of course.

I can see that very few people on here feel the way I do, but I think asking for certainty and dates isn't really on the cards at the moment, and it'll evolve as we go.

It has to be ok for me to say what I feel, without that being turned into me telling other people off for not feeling the same. Just as it should be the case for everyone.

If you want to see a genuine shut down go onto the guilt free railing thread where I had an attempt at railing and was promptly shut down, accused of bullying and told not to tell people what to think. Even though I was just telling people what I think.

Very strange.

I think asking for certainty and dates isn't really on the cards at the moment, and it'll evolve as we go.

I don’t so much mind the lack of certainty or set dates - things are unpredictable. My main issue with the route map is that it doesn’t even seem to be a map to anywhere except Level 3, and even getting that far seems to not take vaccines into account at all.

What’s the path for getting out of the levels system altogether? Or lifting travel restrictions? 90-odd pages in that plan and nothing. We don’t need “this will happen on 14th of May at exactly 2.36pm” but surely we could do a bit better than “🤷‍♀️“

Well I don't know because we're not there yet.

But I think the assumption that because it's not been spelled out that we'll just exist in Tier 3 until the end of time is a bit silly.

Not saying you've done that (I don't really take much notice of posters' names tbh) but plenty on here have and it just seems to feed into the negativity. It's a bit of a spiral on here sometimes.

Boris Johnson has both done a favour and not done a favour by hitting out with this miraculous June date.

He's given hope but there's a chance it's false hope and people could be sorely disappointed if it doesn't go to plan.

NS has done the opposite.

None of this changes the absolute reality that we are all on a countdown to normal.

@GirlLovesWorld exactly my point government should be upfront yesterday with the big change in reality of the tier system. Instead they stated to be in line with WHO majority of people would have gone what's that. SG will say they are being clear but not everyone wishes to read a 94 page document to try and understand what this means in reality.

It's media who have clung to dates Borris said at the earliest. The key difference in the approach is that Scottish government currently haven't factored in vaccination rates into the tier system only case level and hospital capacity.
Going by their own document (p61) they aren't factoring in vaccinations into their modelling to inform the government on levels. As someone who used to do data analysis to me this is missing a crucial part of the data to aim for easing.

"I don’t so much mind the lack of certainty or set dates - things are unpredictable. My main issue with the route map is that it doesn’t even seem to be a map to anywhere except Level 3, and even getting that far seems to not take vaccines into account at all."

Totally agree with this. My main problem with NS's holding pattern plan yesterday was the lack of ambition to get out of this completely. I'm not interested in level 3 where I still can't sit in my Mum's house or see all of my family at once and have to wear masks everywhere - I want to see at least the ambition that all of these restrictions will go, and the recognition that that means accepting some infections and even deaths (although the vaccines improve this situation massively) because it is simply not possible for us to get rid of COVID. Boris may have to push back some of his indicative dates (and to be fair to him he was very clear that each stage was dependent on progress with vaccines and hospitalisations etc.) but he recognised that people desperately need that hope and normality and something to aim for. Instead, we get some vague waffle about needing to keep infection levels really low, hinting at bloody zero COVID again, and no real end in sight. It's no wonder the reaction has been pretty negative - I can't quite believe how far off the mood of the nation that statement was. They genuinely seemed to think people would be happy with this, and I can only assume they've spent far too much time in their own bubble.

I was feeling deflated yesterday after a quick scan of the documents they put up. Closer inspection just seems to be similar to England without promising any dates etc, which is fine. Well as fine as this covid is.
I think the presentation of this yesterday was the problem. The comms people did an atrocious job. They needed to make it look a bit more positive, stressing its a countdown to normality. It needs to be less vague and less negative if they are not going to lose support of those sticking to the rules.

Yeah, I think if people aren't engaged, then it down to them to engage people. I think they are quite good at making available lots of detailed info, but that's not going to engage anyone who isn't already fully engaged.

Agree with everything you said @Y0uCann0tBeSer10us.

A roadmap that doesn't take account of the impact of vaccines is pointless. At some point infections will be high but there will be nobody in hospital or ICU with covid unless they're all still catching it there. At that point it's ludicrous to keep everyone locked up - oh sorry in Tier 3 where we still can't leave our council boundaries, have a meal after 6 or see our DPs inside.

I would hope when we get to that point,some general common sense will prevail, but at this rate I'm doubtful of that. I'll be seeing my DPs once they've had second vaccine injection regardless of what rules are in place, and I'll start travelling outside my own city boundary when I'm not likely to get fined for it. Friend and I are already planning indoor meet for our early April birthdays.

My friend has just been told her wee one can start nursery on 26 April. Was meant to be January. WTAF.