Tiers until the end of time

[runningpink]

Quickly putting this up as last thread is full

There are hundreds like me having to go through similar always told its covid rules and we have zero support.
My mum came up to help with childcare and looking after me..... A nosy neighbour called the sodding police! Thankfully the police apologised wonders of a small town with a police station......
My GP gave me a PowerPoint presentation pack on trauma as I actually ended up with complications and high blood loss when I asked about further help it's the same response - covid doesn't allow at this time......

Lucky for me my work can offer counselling sessions. But it shouldn't be that people who have issues simply get told that unless it's extreme you just have to go it alone due to lock down and covid.

The toll is immense and serious. I was all for lock down but we have a vaccination and nearly completed the most vulnerable list and the vaccination has shown to cut serious cases and hospital admissions.

A MH crisis is severe and people are getting very little support all in the name of an elimination strategy.

@reprehensibleme

But the way the SG are carrying on it's never going to be safe to see granny. I thought this is what the vaccines were for - vaccinate everyone over 50 and the vulnerable and get everything open. But it seems not. I'm starting to wonder why we're bothering.

I certainly agreed with lockdown last year to stop the NHS being overwhelmed because who wants to make decisions about who gets a ventilator and who should just die. I also believe to a certain extent that every life is worth the same as another - someone's life doesn't become worth less just because they're over 80.

But once everyone in high risk age groups and vulnerable groups has been vaccinated we need to open everything up or there will be nothing left to be independent over.

The zero covid plan is just a complete nonsense.

But we aren’t there with everyone over 50 and in vulnerable groups being fully vaccinated yet? Hence why lockdown has been extended to let us get to that point. It has been proven that hospital admissions reduce greatly in light of vaccination.

However notwithstanding hospitals have seen a change in the demographic of patients being admitted and thankfully the treatments they use now mean that people are less likely to die - but they do need a lot of rehab and care to get back to anywhere near an independent life. And that in turn puts a significant and relatively long term strain on all HCPs.

I do understand that we need to be able to live with it to a point and if we can get to a stage whereby vaccinations are significantly reducing hospital admissions then I think we should be hopeful that those numbers are strongly considered when determining the Levels for each area. I’m maybe being overly positive and I’m prepared for a flaming but I’m looking at it as mid April for all over 50 plus vulnerable people vaccinated and then a few weeks for the vaccine to become effective and at that stage we should see significant lifting of restrictions.

And I’m fully aware that the vaccine programme in Scotland needed a boot up the arse to get going.

Kutyrussellsbeard how long are you prepared to continue with the restrictions? Until we achieve zero coved? And the human right of freedom to move within your own country has definitely been affected by the current situation.

@florafoxtrot exactly!

From my experience, DH didn’t see FIL for 6 months last year, obviously out of fear of transmitting the virus because he was 86 and not in great health but not terminally ill. When he went into hospital with trouble with his bowel none of his family could visit and he had no idea how to use a mobile phone or iPad. When he got out of hospital DH started to visit him in the house but keeping a distance.

When he got really ill at the end of last year and was put on end of life care DH was allowed to visit but in full PPE. DH is obviously mourning his dad but one thing he’s really struggling with is all those months he missed with his dad, he would have loved to have taken him down to his home town in the Borders for a last visit. I don’t know what could have been done about this - focus on rolling testing out earlier so people could spend meaningful time together? But yes, DH didn’t just lose his dad, he lost their last year together.

I don't think freedom of movement is a human right but I could be wrong.

I'm prepared to stick with them until the number suggest it's safe to open up. See @florafoxtrot for a more articulate description of that than I could manage.

@kurtrussellsbeard, no, you commented that that 6 months that they may have lost due to covid was valuable time that they could have enjoyed with relatives. I'm pointing out that that 6 months was time where they were restricted and couldn't see family and don't always have access to internet/smart devices and may not live local either.

I've also never seen on here people saying they'd rather have had 2 months of swimming lessons than people dying.

People are allowed to complain about the restrictions AND care about the vulnerable you know

But aye ok.

Maybe we should assume all our elderly are terminally ill. It's true really. But here we are sticking to some form of rules. And maybe by the time they are lifted it will be too late but because there was no crisis we stayed away.

It's maybe hard for some to put themselves in another shoes. But there are all sorts of situations our there.

@WaxOnFeckOff I'm sorry that you're struggling to follow this.

It's not for you to determine the quality of the experience. Some people would have loved restricted but extra time with their loved ones. For some that time wouldn't have been restricted at all because they live together or maybe, like you pointed out, some people lived far away from their family but managed to have a lovely relationship through speaking on the phone or whatever. Maybe that's what always was normal for them?

You don't have to be in constant close contact with someone to have a meaningful relationship.

I don't think people are hard of understanding. Just different views often informed by wider life circumstances maybe.

How many parents would classify what their children get in the form of online learning as an education? I wouldn’t! It takes 20 mins max to complete their ‘daily education’ but the school refuses to issue more work or more challenging work due to the head teachers warped view of his ‘social conscience’, which seems to consist of bringing all kids down to the level of the last able.

The quality of our experience may have been eroded but our rights haven't been removed.

Excellent, I’ll avail myself of my right to have my sister and her family over for dinner (private family life), I’ll send my daughter to her gymnastics class (association, play, friendships), hell I’ll even organise a pro-Indy March to show my support for this shit show (free association, political expression). I might even roll the boat out and give my sister a hug.

Except I can’t. Because the police can now question me and stop me doing it. By law the police need a reasonable, unbiased reason to think you might have committed or being committing a crime. In criminalising daily activities they effectively have the right to stop you at any time, just for being outside. If that’s not an erosion of human rights I’m not sure what is.

This isn’t about “quality of experience”, it’s about not being allowed to have that experience at all. And being criminalised if you are so bold as to push back.

@OldRailer

Maybe we should assume all our elderly are terminally ill. It's true really. But here we are sticking to some form of rules. And maybe by the time they are lifted it will be too late but because there was no crisis we stayed away.

It's maybe hard for some to put themselves in another shoes. But there are all sorts of situations our there.

Why would you consider the elderly terminally ill?

True education is not happening properly and my school age child is really very engaged and it's still not what I'd think of as a genuine education. What might be happening out there across the land?

I'm not going to argue with you Kurt.

@florafoxtrot agree with what you're saying. I'd be reasonably ok with fairly tight restrictions until end of April- with the exception of schooling but then my S3 will be lucky if he sees the inside of a school for more than a couple of days by end of April.

It's the open ended nature of SG roadmap that terrifies me. Will my DS never go back to getting full schooling, am I never to be allowed out of my city council boundary never mind into England or abroad? Yes mean I like south Queensferry and all but not sure I want my summer holidays there.

I agree that we don't know the dates for some of this stuff, but putting out a plan which ends with us still not able to see our family and friends inside or guarantee we can leave our council area seems pretty silly really. We've known about vaccines since December so write them into the plan.

But the Scottish government is talking about moving from lockdown to tiers in the third week of April, not opening up, so we'll still be prevented from travelling to see family, still be prevented from seeing more than a couple of people outside, still be prevented from going into other people's homes, from having a glass of wine in a pub at 7pm (and it's not so much the having a glass of wine in a pub before anyone accuses me of putting my need for alcohol over the safety of others but the fact that hospitality venues won't be able to open in any meaningful and profitable way). You're saying people's right to employment hasn't been taken away, people can still apply for jobs, but of course that's totally meaningless when there are no jobs to apply for.

And the universal declaration of human rights definition includes freedom of movement within your own country, which to me is the UK.

No I'm not surprised @OldRailer because it looks to me like you've just tried to suggest that the elderly are less important somehow. I wouldn't want to get into it either!

Sorry you didn't understand my post.

Me too! Can you explain what you meant then?

No.

You don't have to be in constant close contact with someone to have a meaningful relationship.

yes, but you do need some contact and for many this didn't exist.

I'm following fine thanks..

But then that would mean having a different view to yours which is obviously just not fair.

There is clearly a gulf between us that non face to face communication hasn't a hope of bridging.

I know what @OldRailer, even with my inability to follow.

@WaxOnFeckOff well could you explain it to me?