Just in tiers with it all now ....

[dancemom]

New Thread, same old situation....

I can't understand not giving credit where credits due. BG has screwed up many aspects of trying to manage this pandemic, but their procurement and investment in development of the vaccines has been a leap of faith and meant that British citizens have been vaccinated way before their European counterparts.

I'm delighted my octogenarian DPs in Perth have had their first jag. If they lived in Ireland or Germany for example they wouldn't have had it yet.

There is zero way an independent SG would had the money and the forethought to invest in the way BG did. But if people want to downplay that, then fine.

absolutely right @rookiemere

The idea that an independent Scotland would be in any way better is just laughable. It would be a complete and utter disaster. Not to mention that the SNP have told us very little about what an independent Scotland would look like and manage itself. I don't think even they know.

I didn't realise folk with superpowers walked amongst us?

There is literally no way of knowing what would have happened and it's ridiculous to suggest that you do.

And just when you thought the SNP couldn't get more incompetent...

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/6710840/quarantine-hotels-glasgow-airport-no-flights/

£500k spent on booking Glasgow airport hotels for passengers arriving on international flights.

Except there are no international flights into Glasgow airport at the moment.

@kurtrussellsbeard on the vaccination roll out, it's fairly safe to assume that if Scotland were independent or part of European union, trajectory would have followed a similar path, which is a lot slower than Uk government had achieved.

It would also be fair to say - based on what's been seen so far in pandemic handling - that Scottish government is strong on lockdown measures but not so keen to take a punt on things. Now to be fair, that's normally quite sensible, but in the case of the vaccines wouldn't have worked out so well. Also it's pure economics- due to population numbers BG could invest quite heavily in a number of options, a smaller country be it Scotland or wherever, wouldn't have that option.

I think you can have a pretty good guess at a potential outcome by looking at what else has happened with other countries, e.g. how Europe faired, and on that administration's previous history.

Look feel free to criticise stuff that's actually happened but please let's not make up an imaginary scenario and then criticise that. It's ridiculous and weird quite frankly.

ah but the cherry picking of being other countries only works one way doesn't it? They'd be New Zealand of course!

The UK as a whole isn't doing better than small, independent countries like Denmark, Ireland, Norway, Estonia, Finland re vaccinations.

That's from the 9th February and surely an independent Scotland would be in the EU? Or are we only in that when it suits?

Sorry @anon444877 it took me ages to work out what you meant.

I think looking at a country that's doing well and aspiring to be like them is not remotely the same as making up an imaginary future situation that hasn't actually happened and then criticising a government for it.

Plus we can't actually see what the graph represents or where it is from.

The key word in that chart is fully vaccinated. If you charted total jags given the uk is miles and miles ahead.

@StarryEyeSurprise

The UK as a whole isn't doing better than small, independent countries like Denmark, Ireland, Norway, Estonia, Finland re vaccinations.

That's giving both doses of the vaccination in terms of administration of numbers of first doses the UK is well ahead. Scotland by the way on second doses is only 29,000 so would be way way down the list on that state BTW!

I can't speak for @StarryEyeSurprise but she did say 'on the whole' which does suggest she was well aware that it was to do with completed vaccinations not first jags given. Plus it does say fully vaccinated on the chart.

The point still stands - other small countries manage fine without the UK Gov / British Army saving the day for them.

Just read that about the hotels, another half million chucked down the drain on another failed course of action.... Oh well, never mind, nothing to see here...

Everyone can see it. It's in the paper and it's a bloody outrage.

The hotel thing is the "piss up in a brewery" situation. We have so few airports in Scotland it would have taken five minutes to phone round Edinburgh, Prestwick, Glasgow and Aberdeen and ask how many international arrivals they have at present, and have scheduled by the end of March. They could even have made ONE phone call to the air traffic people to ask.

Only Edinburgh has international flights. But no, let's chuck £500k at pointless hotel rooms.

😂 You can't have it both ways argue that the Scottish government is doing brilliantly on vaccinations then say oh Scotland would be fine look at these countries..... Scotland has less than 0.5% second doses Republic of Ireland has 1.8% as they are applying a different strategy.
By the way it's devolved so Scotland could have decided to go Ireland route they also chose to go for first jab and the longer gap to get through more people.

It doesn't change the fact that in terms of doses actually obtained and delivered the UK has far greater numbers. Ireland for information currently is around 100,000 doses delivered compared to Scotlands over 1million.

Generally stats can be used anyway the person wishes using raw number data actually gives you a far better picture.

And yet starry immediately understood kurt - the small country comparisons are absolutely imaginary:

We only ever about what a particular small country is doing best on as that particular aspect is being discussed, so Scotland would be Portugal for drug deaths, Finland for education, Ireland for not depending on trade with the UK, New Zealand in covid management etc.

@Scottishskifun I genuinely don't understand your point. The Scottish Government is now doing a decent job with the vaccinations. If Scotland was independent we have no idea what would happen but we could aspire to the success of these other small independent countries.

I don't understand why that's having it both ways

It's interesting the inability to give even a tiny modicum of credit to UK government for a reasonable approach.

I'm far from being impartial, but happy to acknowledge that SG approach to getting back to school in a staged fashion seems more reasonable than BG get them all in on March 8th, even though on a personal level it negatively impacts my DS 14.

I'd also like to see details about how an independent Scotland would stack up economically.

I already pay more tax than the same person would in England- naively when that first happened I was in favour of that as it seemed fair, however I can't see anything in terms of improved school outcomes or health service as a result. Is the master plan that by dint of just about being in higher rate tax band I pay more to support others Nationalism ? Oh and remember that many big Financial service companies like mine have headquarters in Scotland and England and were even more spooked by Independent Scotland than by Brexit, so many of the middle/high rate jobs with taxes to support the economy may no longer exist.

I know the conservative government are corrupt to the core, I know Boris and his cabinet of incompetents bungled handling of the pandemic, but none of this means that an Independent Scotland is the answer.

@anon444877 I think you're being a bit obtuse. These countries are pulled out as examples of countries we could learn from.

@rookiemere my posting history is there for all to see. The UK vaccinations roll out has been fantastic. Kate Bingham is an intelligent and formidable woman who pulled an absolute blinder. I have given credit where it is due in relation to vaccines on several different occasions.

Am I going to take this one success in this whole sorry shot show and believe that we are better as a union? Absolutely not. Thousands dead unnecessarily. BILLIONS wasted on an in effective to mediocre test and trace system. Million pound contracts given to pals left right and centre. Credit where it's due but even a stellar vaccination programme isn't bringing those people or that money back.

[quote kurtrussellsbeard]@rookiemere my posting history is there for all to see. The UK vaccinations roll out has been fantastic. Kate Bingham is an intelligent and formidable woman who pulled an absolute blinder. I have given credit where it is due in relation to vaccines on several different occasions.

Am I going to take this one success in this whole sorry shot show and believe that we are better as a union? Absolutely not. Thousands dead unnecessarily. BILLIONS wasted on an in effective to mediocre test and trace system. Million pound contracts given to pals left right and centre. Credit where it's due but even a stellar vaccination programme isn't bringing those people or that money back. [/quote]
Agreed.

And if we don't get the rest right, we risk completely undoing all the potential benefits that the vaccine rollout brings.

The SG communications on covid needs to improve, as per the Citizen's panel report. There is little on the SG website. I find the FM briefings to be the place to find out why things are happening, where the areas of concern are etc. I wish the BBC and other media reported more thoroughly and challenged effectively.

I'm really worried about lockdown fatigue and frustration leading to actions that undermine the vaccine rollout. Totally understandable though it is.