Just in tiers with it all now ....

[dancemom]

New Thread, same old situation....

[quote kurtrussellsbeard]@Scottishskifun I genuinely don't understand your point. The Scottish Government is now doing a decent job with the vaccinations. If Scotland was independent we have no idea what would happen but we could aspire to the success of these other small independent countries.

I don't understand why that's having it both ways [/quote]
Because if you look at the actual numbers delivered rather than a graph of both doses between the countries your actually aspiring to much lower of vaccinations numbers delivered and a lower supply. In theoretical independent Scotland as part of the EU would have been caught up in the vaccination procurement issues currently ongoing. Its having it both ways to say look how well SG is doing on vaccinations but look the UK isn't doing well compared to x.

Is it really that hard for pro independence to admit that the UK government got something right and this has helped the situation in Scotland?

I don't like Borris either but I am in full appreciation that they invested billions into vaccination programmes and procurement. So why don't we give the credit where its due...... To the UK government for taking the gamble and the UK civil servants, NHS and scientists for working their socks off!

Okay @Scottishskifun either you can't or won't grasp my point so I'm not going to labour it too much but I'll try one more time.

The UK government have done a great job on vaccinations.
Nobody knows what an independent Scotland would have done because Scotland isn't independent. It could, however, have had great success like many other small independent countries.

This may have been on par with the UK, it may have been slightly behind, it may have been far behind. We don't know because it's entirely hypothetical.

There would be a vaccination programme though and we, like other countries, would have had access to vaccinations.

I'm not going to rank countries' success in an entirely imaginary situation if that's okay because I don't seem to have the crystal ball you guys do.

I have given credit where it's due many, many times. See my previous post. I have also criticised the SNP many, many times. Feel free to look at my posting history.

BBC reporting some good news for those with relatives or friends in care homes in Scotland:

BBC News - Covid in Scotland: Care homes visits to resume in early March
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-56137945

Two visitors per resident.

There is no evidence at all to suggest that an independent Scotland would have played a blinder. There is however evidence to suggest that they would be in a different situation had we been in the EU and lots of previous admin and other disasters to suggest that if we weren't in the EU, a further fuck up would occur.

But I agree, it's all speculation...

There's no evidence to suggest we wouldn't given that most anti independence posters are adamant we wouldn't get back into the EU.

But it really is all speculation!

And to be fair, given their track record, there was eff all evidence to suggest UK Gov would play a blinder but they did!

Lovely news about care homes! That will make such a difference to people.

The same hurdle to the EU remains from the last independence referendum. To join the EU you have to get agreement from the member states and the quick joining of the EU is likely to be blocked by Spain as Catalonia region wishes to become a Independent country and Spain doesn't want to.

My biggest issue with independence debates is there is no detail of how things will be paid for. Last time revenue was to be raised by taxation on oil and gas except that's still very low.
I'm also very concerned about a wealth tax rumours currently flying around I already pay more than my London counterparts and the area I live in has always had high house prices.

There is no detail behind any of it so we are supposed to take a huge economic jump based on what? The wish to return to a solo nation of tudor times.....

I hate the Tories as well BTW its not just nationalism I dislike!

@ICouldHaveCheckedFirst

Two visitors per resident.

Yes, I saw this! Great news that residents will finally be able to see their families without glass in between them... I assume this is as a result of the vaccine protecting the residents, so the speedy rollout in Scotland and the rest of the UK means we can do this quicker than would otherwise be the case. Also, England is only allowing one visitor (though possibly more often than a once weekly visit?) so that's something that Scotland is being more liberal on. Roll on hugging next!

On the airport hotels, I'm totally bemused. There was someone on the news last night who had flown in to Scotland from Dubai via Dublin having been visiting family longterm, and as she had had a series of strokes her family were worried about the hotel quarantine which she was having to do. They wanted her to quarantine at home so if she had another stroke they'd be on hand to help, rather than having to wait until the hotel staff noticed at the next mealtime or whenever. Fair enough. The SG was contacted and said it was fine to leave hotel quarantine temporarily to get to medical appointments (which didn't answer the concern, but hey) but implied that she should have been in hotel quarantine. But I was sure that this was a similar case to the US family (dad and little girl) last week, who it turned out were exempt from hotel quarantine, because they had come from the US via Dublin - which isn't "abroad" in Scotland's view. I just don't understand the difference. Neither the US nor Dubai are on the uks red list, so had she flown in via Heathrow she wouldn't have had to (hotel) quarantine presumably. Bizarre.

I agree @Scottishskifun. And also a Tory hater 😃

I want full details of full costs and how it’s to be funded and what’s planned before I’d consider voting for huge constitutional change.

This was my worry last time and the Brexit shambles has only increased my concerns.

Re independence: first, SNP need to win the May election; then arrange for a referendum, and that will be the time to ask the difficult questions on currency etc.

I'm so happy about the care home visits. Should have happened months ago using testing!
Friend's dad died in a care home last August, he only moved in in January. She is guilt ridden, says she'd never have moved him if they'd known what was about to happen. Although deep down she knows there was no alternative. She couldn't hug him or hold his hand for last 5 months of his life. Staff brought him to open window and she sat outside. He died very suddenly so no compassionate visit at end of life. The home kept him safe from Covid but he died anyway as he was old and frail.
It's terrible what's happened to elderly people and their families

Yes it should have been a priority.

That's so awful for your friend Sootess.

Perhaps kurt so many times though it's aspirational comparison and there's no detailed analysis for the Scottish context.

What day is the SG road map announcement?

@NotAnActualSheep Dubai is currently on the red list so that would have been the difference in how it was handled - she's have had to quarantine even landing at Heathrow.
That being said, there clearly need to be medical exemptions! Someone who is likely to have a stroke clearly should not be at the tender mercies of whichever hotel worker might check on them at some unspecified point, it's not safe.

Sootess your poor friend, that's so sad. It's haunting not being able to be there with your parent at the end.

@MaxNormal agreed. There should be clear medical exemptions and exemptions for essential workers.

[quote MaxNormal]@NotAnActualSheep Dubai is currently on the red list so that would have been the difference in how it was handled - she's have had to quarantine even landing at Heathrow.
That being said, there clearly need to be medical exemptions! Someone who is likely to have a stroke clearly should not be at the tender mercies of whichever hotel worker might check on them at some unspecified point, it's not safe.[/quote]
Doh! You're right. Have forgotten the difference between cities and countries Yes, that makes sense then.

Daft question do you think the bank will judge me for paying my sons cheque in and transferring the money to me?

It looks mean but actually it's so I can pay for the lego he wants to order.

@Lockdownbear

Daft question do you think the bank will judge me for paying my sons cheque in and transferring the money to me?

It looks mean but actually it's so I can pay for the lego he wants to order.

I don't think they will much care tbh. If it makes you feel better you can tell them what you plan to do with the money as you are doing the transaction.

Going back to the citizens panel report, The Briefing Room on R4 this week covered similar ground. Interesting to hear directly from epidemiologists etc. Available on BBC Sounds (30 minutes).

There's an interesting interview with the boss of Leon the slightly poncey fast food place here. He makes the point that all the talk of relaxing carefully and slowly is all very well, but the "just another two weeks" nature of it, while seeming small in itself could be the 2 weeks that kills a particular business. Also, the amount of money being lost directly and through lost revenue is astonishing. And that's money that's not going into the economy, being taxed and so on.

I like his quote here... He said there had been a "pantomime of scientists against business" during the pandemic - "as if there isn't one giant shared agenda" - and the latter were "positioned as the uncompassionate ones".