Just in tiers with it all now ....

[dancemom]

New Thread, same old situation....

Lives are ruined left right and centre in this pandemic. Lives are ruined when family members die before their time but we're not supposed to mention that are we?

I'm thinking along the lines of my poor friends that own a gym. They literally barely got to open last year and no end on sight

They'd have had a bit longer at it down South at least.

I feel horrendous for all self employed people. They've suffered terribly. Being open for an extra month in the grand scheme of things isn't a huge difference.

@StarryEyeSurprise

Also P1-3 back in school weeks before England and NI ( don't know about the plans in Wales).

Nursery in England never shut.

Interesting Independent article on recent YouGov poll:

'Huge majority of Britons prefer Scotland’s tougher quarantine rules to England’s measures'.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/covid-hotel-quarantine-scotland-england-poll-b1804022.html

I'm not a SNP supporter. But I do support measures to get the virus numbers down and to try and prevent transmissions. Even though I am self employed in the tourism industry, am one of the Excluded and am living frugally off my limited savings. to all those affected by lockdowns and the virus.

 for you @fioreun I don't know how people are coping.

fioreun I've rapidly realised from reading comments online how little understanding many people have of the myriad reasons for people travelling. They think that it's all for holidays, terribly selfish and should therefore be penalised as harshly as possible.

They also seem to have this weird belief that closing the borders now will magically give us back normality when it clearly will not with an endemic virus.

There's also more than a whiff on xenophobia about many of the comments.

Whatever people may want, it's an unrealistic and economically damaging measure to close borders and I hope it's something we can move away from as soon as possible.

@MaxNormal it's not yet endemic. It will be bit not yet. Left unchecked it's still in an extraordinary state of increase. That's not endemic.

@kurtrussellsbeard

 for you *@fioreun* I don't know how people are coping.

Same here for *@fioreun*. ⚘ I was speaking to my auntie today who runs tours around Scotland. Most of her customers were from America.

@MaxNormal your comments seem to be directed at me. Not sure why.

Like many, I travel overseas for work and family reasons. Like many, I've been really affected by the shut down on travel. I don't think that closing the borders will magically give us back normality.

This virus has had a terrible impact on so many people. I support measures that I think will enable as much economic activity as soon as possible and as much contact with friends and family as soon as possible.

@MaxNormal

fioreun I've rapidly realised from reading comments online how little understanding many people have of the myriad reasons for people travelling. They think that it's all for holidays, terribly selfish and should therefore be penalised as harshly as possible.

They also seem to have this weird belief that closing the borders now will magically give us back normality when it clearly will not with an endemic virus.

There's also more than a whiff on xenophobia about many of the comments.

Whatever people may want, it's an unrealistic and economically damaging measure to close borders and I hope it's something we can move away from as soon as possible.

Actually, having open borders (with a side of Brexit) has resulted in the UK entering the worst economic recession for 300 years. Far worse than our peers.

Thank you for the flowers :-)

I may know your Auntie, @StarryEyeSurprise ...

I really miss sharing our beautiful and complex country with guests from overseas. And listening to and learning from them.

For me it's not even so much about the differences that make me angry, I'm doing bugger all anyway.

it's the appearing every day to scold and patronise and pile on negativity and to control the minutia of everything. Being treated like a toddler. It's the smug, I'm dong best but being constrained by westminster when it's not going so well but all down to scotgov if it's looking better. It's not a competition unless she can perceive that there is something she can say she is winning at - then it's a competition. Everything is politicalised, surrounds with toadying Yes people. making things different just for the sake of being different.

So it's that you just don't like her? I appreciate your honesty. There's actually very little difference but you just can't stick her. That's fair enough I suppose. Can't like everyone.

I don't see a law making it illegal for me to travel to see my family as a tiny thing I see that as a major thing. My son like so many has lived half his life under lock down (and for some all). He has seen his grandparents once in over a year and tries to cuddle a phone screen.....
His socialisation and development went backwards for a time because he wasn't seeing any peers luckily for us my DH is a KW and we have a very understanding nursery. Nurseries shouldn't have been shut in January. The govt even admitted this wasn't to do with a concern that nurseries were spreading the virus simply as a way of keeping people inside to reduce community transmission so thousands of children have been cut off from peers.....

Oil workers from non UK sector are spending 18-21 days on a rig and then shut in a hotel get 4-7 days with their family then have to go back again just to support their families.

So no I don't think they are small things and even a month or two of a small business trading makes a huge difference when they have been forced closed for nearly a year!

I'm not saying it's not terrible @Scottishskifun I'm saying that in my opinion, and I am in exactly the same boat with you with my kids and their grandparents, its a small price to pay to save lives. I'd rather this and they got to see their grandparents again. My parents are dead and if I had the choice of dead parents or distanced parents I know which I would be choosing.

It's so very hard for everybody. This thread is reflective of the upset, frustration, anxiety and sadness that so many feel, this far into the pandemic cycle.

I'm so very glad that the needs of young children are being prioritised.

Let's hope it all goes OK and older children and young people can start to return to school, college, see their friends and have some normality again. I think this is so important and accept the trade off for economic activity and travel.

fioreun I was responding to your post but I wasn't accusing you of holding xenophobic views or anything like that, obviously, just remarking on my observations about people's views in general on border closures, I don't find all of them a very comfortable read.

@kurtrussellsbeard that's somewhat pedandic, I'm sure people got what I was saying, namely that there's no rolling back to zero covid now.

@StarryEyeSurprise I'm genuinely not convinced that our high death rates were exclusively, or indeed even mostly, down to how the pandemic was handled. We've had much higher deaths than countries that have had shorter and less draconian restrictions.
I don't disagree on Brexit, what a balls up that was and impeccably horrible timing. The pandemic has been somewhat distracting most from the consequences for the moment too.

My parents are dead and if I had the choice of dead parents or distanced parents I know which I would be choosing

I've actually often felt grateful that my parents are already dead so I don't have the additional heartache of knowing they were suffering my absence for so long.

@kurtrussellsbeard

So it's that you just don't like her? I appreciate your honesty. There's actually very little difference but you just can't stick her. That's fair enough I suppose. Can't like everyone.

I don't personally know her but I dislike the way she's doing her job and the characteristics she portrays. A lot of the subtle differences don't affect me so I'm not judging on what they are rather than the fact there is often little obvious need other than to be seen to be different or for political reasons. I'm aware that they affect others more though so can see why they would judge on the actual content.

Also the fact that they introduced a tiers system and then did not abide by it at any point.

And many things not covid related but that's for another day.

@kurtrussellsbeard at the rate of lack of information and easing my DH grandparents will be dead by the time we legally are allowed to England travel to see them.... Not from covid they have had both doses of vaccination but due to the sheer timescales of it all potential risk with my FIL as well. My DH does covid response we cannot break the rules he risks his job to do so. Oh and my parents have already been vaccinated in England weeks ago in the mid 60s with second jab due in March.

The hints so far from the Scottish government seem to be potential Scottish summer holidays.....ergo myself and many like me are then not able to see family for how long........ Rates where my parents are is lower than the majority of Scotland it's not like the whole of England has crazy rates just like the whole of Scotland isn't based on Glasgow!

@MaxNormal

My parents are dead and if I had the choice of dead parents or distanced parents I know which I would be choosing

I've actually often felt grateful that my parents are already dead so I don't have the additional heartache of knowing they were suffering my absence for so long.

Yes, me too. Although they didn't die from covid so are clearly are irrelevant.

My in-laws are in England but they are a bit vulnerable (type 2 diabetes) and very careful about health stuff so my SIL who lives 40 minutes away from them has seen them distanced in a park (with Grandparents keeping their 2m distance) so having very low cases would be more use than being allowed to travel...

@WaxOnFeckOff what a ridiculous thing to say. It doesn't even make sense. Nobody thinks only covid deaths matter. Only covid at this point is likely to overwhelm the NHS.