New Fred. It nearly ended in tiers.

[Cismyfatarse]

Sorry. Lost track of what was proposed. Hope this will do.

But apart from that @Dinnafashyersel yes I completely agree with the rest of your post.

I suspect they'll be looking to increase vaccine access to at least older teens asap - they done know fully but it seems like there's not necessarily a huge distinction between the top end of high school and the 18-25 bracket so they might extend it.

I've always had a soft spot for Andy B so there's no point asking me.

But it's still an unknown. Yes glandular fever and similar are issues but how many kids realistically in a year group catch glandular fever every year? Not many. In my senior years at school I can think of one person that had it.

Realistically covid, left unchecked in a school or university environment, would infect many, many more and the chances then increase of more young people left with horrid consequences. Of course in a few years that will be less of an issue as vaccines and natural immunity rise but that would be no consolation to those affected this year.

@kurtrussellsbeard

Is it me or is Andy Burnham strangely attractive now?

I don't know what you mean

@StatisticallyChallenged yes! I would love to see 16+ vaccinations if at all possible.

@kurtrussellsbeard

But it's still an unknown. Yes glandular fever and similar are issues but how many kids realistically in a year group catch glandular fever every year? Not many. In my senior years at school I can think of one person that had it.

Realistically covid, left unchecked in a school or university environment, would infect many, many more and the chances then increase of more young people left with horrid consequences. Of course in a few years that will be less of an issue as vaccines and natural immunity rise but that would be no consolation to those affected this year.

The number who catch it doest really matter, because for most it's minor at that age. Question is how many will get long term symptoms - is it higher than any other virus we don't shut schools for

Interesting article following up on stats comments earlier. Estimates UK population has around 35% background immunity even before vaccine programme kicks in and estimates fairly rapid ramp up from vax going forward - includes reputable scientific referencing.

(Not behind a paywall unless you have used your Speccy quota already).

www.spectator.co.uk/article/vaccination-is-pushing-england-s-population-immunity-to-new-heights

Even long term symptoms isn’t the issue: it’s keeping the NHS from collapse. That’s the only reason to persist with this.

definitely agree on Andy B! I understand the P1-P3 + nursery needs confirmation, so the chance is there it may not be confirmed kurt!!

I did subscribe to hellofresh though because there was a good offer on and I am fed up with eating the same old thing so maybe I can see why people are doing restaurant cook at home too despite the faff factor and the fact it doesn't really recreate the dine out luxury!

Well that's what we don't know surely? And I'm very poor with numbers but surely the number who catch it does matter as well. There are plenty of illnesses with a much higher CFR than covid, for example, but the reason this is such a problem for us is because everyone is catching it. Surely the same could be said for long covid in teens. The more that get it the more there will be suffering long term effects?

Even if it's a tiny percentage who go on to suffer long term consequences I mean.

For those who haven't seen it and are curious, this is a nice description of the vaccine effect in Israel.

twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1357715616053014528?s=20

A thread from Chris Giles (FT) shows this isn't yet visible in English data, but it's early days. Should be much clearer in 2-4 weeks.

twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1358016395276136450?s=20

They will need to vaccinate the students over the summer before September or it will just be a mass outbreak in halls again.

DF is wanting to go abroad on holidays now that he's getting his jag which I agree with PPs would be unfair. DF really hating all those restrictions and completely forgetting that there may still be quarantine and rules in other countries too.

Saw this and am horrified regarding the waste. I’m am still concerned we are still 3% behind England despite the efforts these past few days. That link regarding retired medics coming back to vaccinate really sums it up. Money money money.
There was an article regarding high rise buildings and the money 1M given to her and nothing has been down with it.

www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus-scotland-wasted-doses-covid-19-vaccine-labelled-disgrace-nhs-staff-eicc-3124639

I’m still hopeful that come Easter with all our top groups been vaccinated, hospital admissions turning into ICU cases will drop down. Schools should be opened before Easter as all CEV medical care home residents and the elderly will be done and have gained 70-90% immunity.
What would make it better for us to deal with all this, is the SG should explain as BJ has done, how all the stats drive their decisions and what they need them to be at; to be going forward with opening up.

Peter Murrell is to give evidence next week.

www.heraldscotland.com/news/19066675.salmond-inquiry-sturgeons-husband-testify-compulsion-threat/

It really doesn't bother me if the older vaccinated age groups go off on holidays. Yes, I want schools to be open as much as anyone but if there can be a chance of some people getting to experience some joy again then I'm all for it. I do get where people are coming from on this though

I'm with you on this @fluffyugg - if the older generation can go on holiday they should. I genuinely don't see why not.

I'm for minimum misery - people should be allowed whatever is safe for them as soon as it is. I know my mum has barely been anywhere in the last year and has been petrified for every supermarket trip.

I know we're supposed to all be in it together but she was in the high risk cohort and I'm not so she's had a lot more sincere worries. I doubt she'll race off to Tenerife though!

I think in general, the restrictions have been hardest on the oldest and youngest in society. I know parents, the disabled etc have also had things exceedingly hard but in terms of age and the impact of losing a year to lockdown, I think it's less of an issue to lose that in your 30s, 40s and 50s.

I therefore don't have any issue with older people heading off on holiday.

I'd love to get away but I can wait regardless of whether I necessarily agree with long term restrictions.

There is an issue with people heading off on holiday before everyone who can be is vaccinated, if they go to somewhere with higher prevalence than here - they have a higher chance of picking it up, bringing it back, and then it spreading.

It seems somewhat hypocritical to have a situation where children are unable to attend school largely to protect others, but those who they were at home to protect will be able to go on holiday while the children are still at home? Even if vaccinated you can still spread it so it feels a bit "I'm alright Jack" to me

I was talking about when it is allowed to travel and presumably there would still be quarantine which the retired can more easily accommodate and would have to include the cost within their holiday. I'll be glad if i can get a local break somewhere despite it being a lot of special dates for us this year. DH can't factor in quarantine with his job so that's us out of the game until that requirement is removed.

I meant to say that I can't see that being allowed until schools are open for all.

Alistair Munro, paediatrician on Twitter. Wondering why fear ramped up when things looking good.

Fear based stuff is to keep us all following the restrictions as more and more are vaccinated. Otherwise I’m sure people will hear just the “good” news and question why they need to follow restrictions.

I can’t see big holidays going on whilst schools are closed really. After schools open if travel starts then so be it they’ll have to follow quarantine etc. I honestly think most of the older population being vaccinated are just keen to go to the supermarket without (Too much) worry and to see their friends and family surely.

Good news today for me my Inlaws (67 and 68) got call today from gp today asking them to come in for vaccinations. Only 3hrs notice but they are delighted to be getting. Sadly still no appointment for my 78 year old DF in different council area (with higher COVID rates!)

On a practical note I would welcome as many people as possible going abroad on holiday as possible. On the few days it was decent last summer we couldn't get anywhere near the coast or Loch Lomond for a bucket and spade day out.

There is a reasonable prospect that vaccinating high risk groups will be enough to reduce symptomatic transmission in lower risk groups. Seen quite a lot of papers confirming the presumption that symptoms are correlated with transmission and severity of transmission. It makes sense to look at the emerging data going forward.