New Fred. It nearly ended in tiers.

[Cismyfatarse]

Sorry. Lost track of what was proposed. Hope this will do.

To be clear I was not actually advocating bloody forced vaccines. Just making the point that in this case especially people being numpties and refusing for spurious reasons could have a huge impact on us all.

I believe at least some NHS trusts mandate vaccination - or rather antibody testing with vaccination if n antibodies present for some conditions though which is interesting. Not sure how widespread it is. Obviously covid isn't on the lists in most cases, but I wonder if it will be added. I actually just read something suggesting that especially if a vaccine suppresses transmission then it could possibly be acceptable for care home operators to mandate it too. I doubt it will take long for it to be tested in court if so

All 3 incidents tonight are connected apparently.

Do those who are refusing this vaccine refuse others, I wonder? Is it a cultural thing with just this vaccine, or all vaccines? It was the BAME kids in my classes who were most sceptical about the vaccine back in November/ December I remember.

My best guess is fear of what's in them, worry over animal products. Listening to each other, spreading fear.

A couple of weeks ago they were saying that margarine covid would need 80% of the population to have the vaccination

Hadn't realised that I Can't Believe It's Not Butter was the new Scot Gov adviser.

I can't see how they can ever mandate it it for flights etc as how would that be evidenced? Millions have now had it, did they get it marked up on their passports or a special tattoo? I appreciate there will be a record on an NHS file somewhere but nor exactly available to the bouncer at the theatre or airline etc. I think that shop has sailed.

Also, as we can see, the estimated numbers in each category are not correct. Think NHS is sitting at 110%. That could very well contain some carers or carers might sit in more than one category.

I'd be interested to know as well how the vacccinated will be able to fly abroad. (really want a sunny holiday!).

What I also want is for the face masks and SD rules to be scrapped completely but I don't see that happening this year at all.

@Lockdownbear

My best guess is fear of what's in them, worry over animal products. Listening to each other, spreading fear.

Yeah there seems to be a toxic mix of reasons going around

• "it's not safe" i.e. developed quickly
• nanoparticles
• might cause infertility
• breastfeeding/ttc (no longer contraindicated btw)
• foetal matter (all sorts of variants on this)
• microchips
• it's only flu
• I trust my immune system
• the vaccine is more dangerous than covid
• we're being experimented on

Plus people who have allergies etc so actually can't have it

Flights ok good point. But when flying in late pregnancy you need to produce a letter saying your safe to fly. They could operate a similar system.

Another consideration is your insurance companies insisting that they'll only cover covid if your vaccinated. Similar to going to certain countries you need vaccines before you travel.

I don't think the British Government or Scottish government will enforce vaccines but I can definitely see it for travel.

@WaxOnFeckOff

I can't see how they can ever mandate it it for flights etc as how would that be evidenced? Millions have now had it, did they get it marked up on their passports or a special tattoo? I appreciate there will be a record on an NHS file somewhere but nor exactly available to the bouncer at the theatre or airline etc. I think that shop has sailed.

Also, as we can see, the estimated numbers in each category are not correct. Think NHS is sitting at 110%. That could very well contain some carers or carers might sit in more than one category.

Best guess - same way as we're seeing now with places that require a negative test taken x hours before flight, except it will change to being an antibody test. Or we'll have to obtain certificates from docs (I think this is required for some diseases in certain countries already, yellow fever?)

@jabbathebutt

I'd be interested to know as well how the vacccinated will be able to fly abroad. (really want a sunny holiday!).

What I also want is for the face masks and SD rules to be scrapped completely but I don't see that happening this year at all.

With you on all of that!

Dreaming of some sun

@WaxOnFeckOff I think they just scan the microchip

Can you imagine the drain on the NHS if we need to get a retrospective confirmation of vaccine? I appreciate that there would be a charge but it's more the manpower and then dealing with the issues and complaints when the record keeping has gone wrong, which it will, human error is always an issue with most processes.

I think yellow fever etc is a smaller issue as obvs we don't need that for every country and in the main, folk have just gone to gp and paid for it so have the record given at the time.

I think if this was to potentially be a requirement, they would have had to supply something at the time that includes photography evidence at the time of the injection. Otherwise people could claim to be anyone (yes, I know unlikely) when receiving their vaccine.

Unless they decide to introduce something for the 2nd jag of course?

I appreciate that it would be a headache for the NHS but all it takes is a 'you don't need to quarantine if you've had the jag' and people will start asking for letters.

They could hand out a letter at the second dose stage though.

I need a sunny holiday to look forward to, hopefully that can happen next year.

It would make sense to give a letter / card / certificate when people receive the second jag.

Slightly more advanced than the 'I've been a brave boy' issued to kids when they get the MMR or the signature in the red book.

I need to sort this years holiday.

I fancied Devon or Cornwall but DH thinks it too far. Where's good in the UK for a family holiday, beach and pool are two main requirements?

@Lockdownbear Dumfries & Galloway? Nice holiday parks near Kirkcudbright.

I like the idea of a Special Sticker 😂 I thought I was going to get one the other day when the doctor told me how good I’d been - disappointingly not

We are just looking into that just now too. Don't want to drive too far, so it'll be northwest or northeast of England I think.

I'm holding off on booking any holidays. Don't really fancy a UK holiday (over priced and same weather) but at the same time I want a holiday. Have heard Cornwall is really nice but will we be allowed to go?

Re: flights, if we are told we need proof of vaccination to go abroad on holiday I bet uptake would increase!

I think you’d need a second mortgage for a uk holiday this year.

I’m holding out for the first furrin destination I can go to

Places I've looked don't seem too bad. I know I'll need to book sharpish though.

@Lockdownbear

I need to sort this years holiday.

I fancied Devon or Cornwall but DH thinks it too far. Where's good in the UK for a family holiday, beach and pool are two main requirements?

Devon and Cornwall are well worth the trip. You could stop overnight on the way. I never went as a child because my parents felt the same as your dh. I only braved the trip because I now live in SE England. Dorset, especially around Lyme Regis, is great too.

My head is spinning as we've literally had the info in the last hour.

Mr Groovee is having a pre op/Covid tes/surgical endoscopy next week. We have no idea why as it was a clerical worker just giving him the appointments. He tried to phone the GP about getting signed off longer but the Receptionist told him it couldn't be done before Tuesday and hung up on him.

I'm off to find cake. I need it!

Cake always helps grovee - that's a shock and it's upsetting the admin wasn't more helpful, I'd have thought someone would've called.