Effects of Brexit deal on Scotland

[Justpassingtime1]

Assuming it all goes ahead what are the likely impacts on Scotland?

The folk saying get independence in and then vote for Labour etc have more chance of a Labour government in a shorter timescale by remaining in the UK.

I'm an SNP member. I'll vote SNP 1st and second choice in the next round of elections. When we get independence I fully expect the SNP, job done, to splinter and Scottish Tory, Scottish Labour, Scottish Green, and Scottish Uncle Tom Cobly and all will see their proportion of the vote (and memberships) increase.

No, I disagree. I think that if Scotland votes for independence in the next independence referendum the SNP will be in charge for quite a while as the dust settles. It takes time for people to find their feet in a new political landscape and parties and allegiances need to form. we still need the country to function and run and those in power should do it at least until the next scheduled election. they’ve been chomping at the bit for decades to run a fully independent country and I’d think it would be disastrous for the people if they just ran. Surely the last thing people would want would be having another election? I know I’m already fed up of referendums, elections and continual pressure of online consultations to get my voice heard.

Gradual change is always better for everyone unless we all want the chaos of a revolution.

I voted for independence in 2014 but accepted the vote to remain as part of the U.K.
show me that the SNP can run my country well and in a generation’s time I might vote for them again.

Saying the SNP will splinter if independence is voted for at this time is excusing and getting them off the hook for any mistakes and mishandling they have done.

@Jodri

No, I disagree. I think that if Scotland votes for independence in the next independence referendum the SNP will be in charge for quite a while as the dust settles. It takes time for people to find their feet in a new political landscape and parties and allegiances need to form. we still need the country to function and run and those in power should do it at least until the next scheduled election. they’ve been chomping at the bit for decades to run a fully independent country and I’d think it would be disastrous for the people if they just ran. Surely the last thing people would want would be having another election? I know I’m already fed up of referendums, elections and continual pressure of online consultations to get my voice heard.

Gradual change is always better for everyone unless we all want the chaos of a revolution.

I'm not saying it will happen overnight. The elections after the one after independence will, I'm sure, see the electorate start to work out where they want the country to go after we've got our hands on the levers of power and the alliance that is the SNP will start to break up.

As for gradual change - yes, better than revolution (or at least better than bloody, violent revolution) - but the pace of change is not constant sometimes opportunities present themselves and should be seized with both hands.

I'm sorry you're 'fed up' with being asked your opinion but how else are you going to 'get your voice heard' without referendums, elections and online consultations. It's the price we pay for living in a democracy.

There is a fine balance in the argument for more referendums and consultations though isn’t there.

Often they trivialise and oversimplify complex issues trying to boil them down to a yes/no; Brexit being a prime example and I would argue that another independence referendum for Scotland would be increasingly more complex.
What’s the point of MP and MSP if they continually and repeatedly ask us about over views and opinions, almost doing their job for them; goodness I’ve got enough to do and why are we paying them so much, where’s my wage? which yes they are important but the current administration in Scotland take it to quite an extreme. It’s their job to make decisions and constant consultations give them either an excuse to push an agenda which may be skewed by fringe and minority groups or cries of it wasn’t our idea but the people’s.
Referendums do not provide answers for divisive issues; so when does the U.K. get another vote on remaining in Europe? If the public not respect the result what’s the point in having them?

We can live in a democracy without constant referendums.

Or perhaps you are right. Direct democracy like Switzerland could be the way to go where they vote on average 4 times a year. Maybe I’d prefer this as it would all be out in the open with ideas and policies properly discussed, but I’d need to read up on it.

@Jodri

Or perhaps you are right. Direct democracy like Switzerland could be the way to go where they vote on average 4 times a year. Maybe I’d prefer this as it would all be out in the open with ideas and policies properly discussed, but I’d need to read up on it.

Which raises the question how often do we vote in the UK?

A quick trawl through Wikipedia:

2001 General Election
2003 National Assemblies/Parliament election
2004 European Parliament election
2005 General Election
2007 National Assemblies/Parliament election
2010 General Election
2009 European Parliament election
2011 National Assemblies/Parliament election
2014 European Parliament election
2015 General Election
2016 National Assemblies/Parliament election
2017 General Election
2019 European Parliament election
2019 General Election

Brexit referendum and Scottish Indyref

With mayoral and local elections it gets a little more complex but there have been a few of them too.

Setting aside the mayoral and local elections for the moment (some of which will have taken place at the same time as General and Regional Elections that makes 16 votes this century. (I hope I haven't missed any.)

Which is less than one a year. Hardly onerous.

I bet most people spend more time doing their Christmas shopping each year than they have spent voting for the past 20 years.

Yeah you are right once a year is not much, feels a lot, lot more. At least no European elections any more, I was the only one of my friends and family who voted in these elections.

Thank you for looking that all up. The politicians and media do like to make a song and dance about themselves for the constant stream of updates we get.

Direct democracy, would that mean less politicians? I’d be all for that.

I'm quite keen on the idea of citizens assemblies.

I'm taking part in a Scottish Parliament Citizen's Panel for the next four Saturdays, which is to discuss ideas for the roadmap out of the COVID pandemic. I'm really excited to see what it'll be like. Not Brexit related but I think it's great that things like this take place.

Great. I knew the SG were setting this up but didn't realise it had already started. Did you apply or were you asked?

I got an email about it and applied; not sure how I ended up on their database but I was really keen to take part.

Oh good, glad the SG is doing this, i had heard about the Irish government introducing them, i suspect they probably work better in small countries? Ill be able to tell DS1 who has been ranting about politicians in an angry young person way...

I knew the SNP had it in their manifesto but didn't realise they were happening already. Brilliant .

Brexit update for today..testing a new system in real time. 👎

Palmed off again .

Just read that the Tory Fisheries Minister didn't read the impact report that Brexot would have on the industry because she was too busy organising a nativity for children. Boris is standing by her, nothing from DR. Honestly...

I so want this not to be true but there's very little historically to make me believe it isn't.

I know. Every day you think , this can't be true. The amount of incompetent fu*kwits in the UK Government.
Today's WTAF moment- Jacob Rees Mog saying Brexit had been beneficial as the fish are happier now because they're British. We're living in an episode of Blackadder.
Felt sorry for the Loch Fyne shellfish company owner who voted leave based on the Tories lies and is now potentially facing bankruptcy.

I don't really feel sorry for them: the lies were so obvious, I mean they barely bothered to cover them up. Any sensible person only had to do ten minutes of reading to understand it was all smoke and mirrors.

If you think Brexit is bad, when the EU only buys 15% of Scotland’s exports, how much massively more disastrous will independence be, as England buys 60% of Scotland’s exports?
You would be outside the EU, outside the UK, a tiny banana republic with no bargaining power and two massively bigger blocs wielding trade tariffs against you.
I can’t understand why anybody supports the SNP in this suicidal nonsense.
And that’s before you add in the loss of the Barnett subsidy from England and your eye watering deficit that you can’t afford to service without the Bank of England underwriting you.

@IncludeWomenInTheSequel

I don't really feel sorry for them: the lies were so obvious, I mean they barely bothered to cover them up. Any sensible person only had to do ten minutes of reading to understand it was all smoke and mirrors.

I saw this yesterday on the back of the JRM comment. The Government is just so removed from reality, it's all a joke to them and an avenue through which to get richer. Babdock the issues re exports didn't need to happen. It's only because of the UK Government's inability do anything which isn't a complete f up. Read up on the process requirements the UK Gov has put in place for exports. It's unbelievable and not needed. You really think the rest of the UK can survive without importing goods from Scotland? We'll need to agree to disagree on that one. Also, our deficit is the same as many other European countries. Italy for example. You realise our GDP is the same as Finland's? We are a wealthy country, despite what the UK Government needs you to believe.

Would that be the same Italy with cripplingly high youth unemployment? Notorious for govt corruption, tax corruption? Oh yes, such a good place to be.

Like living under the UK Government but with sun then?