Fears For Tiers

[Bytheloch]

Thread #567 Still here, getting through each day one 2M step away at a time. November into December 2020 here we go...

@NotAnActualSheep re earlier comment on masks for pick up, I don’t wear one either and we’re not allowed in the playground anyway, so I stand outside on the street in a sea of masks- until this week, where I’ve noticed a few others without masks, who initially did. I’ve done my bit by dropping in to conversations that it was actually the Swinneybot who announced it, it didn’t go through ScotParl and he has no powers to request you wear one off school premises. I’m sensing that people feel it’s gone too far this week, particularly in my local area as we’re now T4, without the data to back it up.

@anon444877

For anyone that likes to follow research, Emily oster is tweeting about libraries quarantining books and how nonsensical that is based on the data on surface transmission.

I agree - things like this are infuriating! Why not just wash hands if you're concerned. Or not lick the books?

I help with a children's group and one of the organisers has this thing about "paper is an infection risk". So anything involving paper has to be prepared at least 72 hours in advance - kept in a separate plastic bag (which is apparently better at scaring the virus off than paper bags), then the finished sheet, craft or whatever has to be put back in the bag and left for another 72 hours before it can be displayed (and the display has to be in a way that nothing can brush against anyone, so no low hanging mobiles/ paper chains or anything)... There's a whole risk assessment and everything. I've just learnt to roll my eyes and not say anything and then we just do what we would have done anyway, but with added plastic bags.

Asda is 25 £ for Xmas trees

Not much point in someone doing a risk assessment if they don't understand the risks!

The newfound love of plastic is one of the most infuriating things. Not least because most natural fibres - wood, wool, lino are antimicrobial whereas plastic is not.

"... scientists found that three minutes after contaminating a board that 99.9 percent of the bacteria on wooden boards had died, while none of the bacteria died on plastic..."

@WaxOnFeckOff

I've never been to costco. Am I missing out?

Depends what kind of stuff you like to buy. We only go every couple of months and stick up stuff like meat and fish, cleaning stuff, juice, kitchen and toilet roll etc but in normal times it's a place you can get lost in as it has clothes and books and general house stuff and electronics and booze and lovely cheese and meat etc as well as toiletries, shoes etc. If you are not very local then you do need to have storage space for stuff.

Huge slices of pizza etc in the cafe and often have wee tasting counters spread about but not so much at the moments

Ah, thanks! It sounds like quite a bad idea for my bank account me to go to that kind of "getting lost" place! We tend not to buy in bulk really as we don't have the space, and we'd have to get stuff back in a taxi or bus. The foodie bits sound good though. I may have an explore after this is all over.

bytheloch yes, there were definitely fewer today than I have seen previously. I do wonder if the SG are shooting themselves in the foot by this constant changing "guidance"/ recommendations/ suggestions etc, and ever harsher regulations. No-one can keep up, and I think people are just getting tired of it all, as it doesn't seem to matter what we do, we still get shat on.

I saw this in today's paper - not sure if it solves the IKEA conundrum for some posters?
(I don't actually need anything from IKEA, it's more the idea of not being able to go, should I suddenly need a new chair or whatever!)

I think I’ll actually miss Argos the most at this time of year. It’s handy to get all the presents for all the kids I’m “auntie” to in one go

Will Argos not have click and collect?

@Possums4evr

I saw this in today's paper - not sure if it solves the IKEA conundrum for some posters? (I don't actually need anything from IKEA, it's more the idea of not being able to go, should I suddenly need a new chair or whatever!)

Ah - that makes more sense. Which "draft regulations" or "document" is it talking about, I wonder? And how are they going to define "immediate vicinity". The lure of Straiton is strong when I've been told I can't go there (also I have a BOGOF voucher for hot chocolate from Costa, but for some reason it's only valid at the Straiton Costas).

Not sure what paper I was reading Scottish Daily Mail and they had it on the front page that the cross border travel ban might not actually be legal.

@NotAnActualSheep i have that Straiton Costa voucher too !
Had said to my friend that we should go, but now I fear postponed for a while. It is valid until 30/12 - shall we take a bet on wether we will be able to go there legally before it expires ?

@Bikingbear I've seen that too. A professor at Glasgow Uni said he can see solicitors advising clients not to pay the fine. I know nothing about law but do have a strong background in politics. It doesn't seem right that the Scottish government can tell British citizens not to travel to other parts of the U.K. The Scottish Parliament were given powers. In this instance, they seem to be taking them. I would love to this to be legally challenged.

Haha! Bet we can't...Kind of regret not going earlier, but it just didn't seem essential enough to go just for that! Should I nip on a bus with DS now and we could be there and back by 6...?

[quote MissEliza]@Bikingbear I've seen that too. A professor at Glasgow Uni said he can see solicitors advising clients not to pay the fine. I know nothing about law but do have a strong background in politics. It doesn't seem right that the Scottish government can tell British citizens not to travel to other parts of the U.K. The Scottish Parliament were given powers. In this instance, they seem to be taking them. I would love to this to be legally challenged. [/quote]
Yes, I could understand a UK wide "level/ tier 3 or higher can't travel, and no-one else can travel there" thing, but it seems to be over stretching the SG remit to forbid someone from Highland, or the borders or wherever, to travel to a similar tier 1 or 2 place in England. Surely the reason we have our weird 5 tier system starting at 0 is so 1, 2 and 3 roughly tied in with the English system, with roughly the same restrictions, reflecting roughly the same virus prevalence. But now it seems that she doesn't "trust" the English system at all, and is tarring all areas as "high prevalence".

It was obvious that this kind of restriction was coming though, when in lockdown 1 she "couldn't rule it out". There was a heap of opposition to it then, though, and now the supposed opposition have rolled over and accepted it, and I can't understand why?!

Oh dang - and now when I think of it I planned to go to Nike today as I know Ds size and preference and just buy the stuff myself. But I'm sat down now and couldn't be bothered.

The legal basis for travel restrictions is interesting. I suppose England had the same issues with their Tier restrictions, but that's now been much simplified with a full on lockdown. I think there will be public outrage if there is restrictions on going across the border for Christmas itself, depending on what loosening has been put in place in each country.

For anyone having qualms about putting their "twist" on the shopping rules.

The main Amazon distribution centre is in Greenock. Therefore the Amazon workforce will be traversing out from cleanish Inverclyde all over the many unclean tier 4 areas throughout the West all day every day. Once they have done that they may make the odd trip Northwards to the even less unclean areas. They will also be receiving multiple deliveries from Glasgow airport in unclean Renfrewshire and even road haulage from that England.

Last time there was an outbreak there it was cross linked with the outbreak at the contact tracing centre in Lanarkshire.

I agree on the outrage if Christmas rules are different in the four nations. So I really hope they do manage to thrash something out with Gove to get all four doing the same thing. Though I appreciate that isn't going to be easy or appealing...

Are the weekly reviews of levels in the council areas still going to carry on? I know the areas in level 4 are there til at least 11th Dec, but is that it for everyone else now too? Surely SG has to review the level 1/2/3 councils to see if they need to move down. I have no doubt we'll be told if they need to move up.

@IwishIwasyoda

The loss of civil liberties and freedom of speech (i.e. if you express an alternative view you are immediately branded a Covidiot) bothers me greatly.

History is full of people imposing suspect laws/rules for the 'greater good' that actually result in undermining or dismantling democracy.

@IwishIwasyoda indeed

@Tomorrowisanewday

www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/debate-coronavirus-scotlands-strategic-approach-november-19-2020

Neil Findlay (at 18:07) speaks about why he wasn't supporting this

Neil Findlay seems ok on Twitter/ actually speaks out and seems pretty sensible

@BlueThursday

I think I’ll actually miss Argos the most at this time of year. It’s handy to get all the presents for all the kids I’m “auntie” to in one go

You can pick up your Argos click and collect in Sainsbury’s, even most small local ones.

How ever you can only return to Sainsbury’s with an Argos store inside.

Nicola Sturgeon said at today's briefing that all areas would have the reassessment of their tier announced on the 11th.

WouldBeGood - I wasn't aware of him, but I thought he spoke a lot of sense in that clip

@IwishIwasyoda this is what troubles me the most. On my hometown's Facebook chat group, a man started a discussion about not being able to go to his usual supermarket, despite it being a five minute drive, because of the new rules. Up pops a woman saying you've just got to follow the rules, follow the rules etc etc Any time any person tried to challenge her she'd say 'are you a scientist' 'why don't you become a politician if you know better?' and even
'they know better than us'. It's so disturbing that people think citizens shouldn't question rules or laws.Good and strong democracy requires the electorate to question and hold their leaders to account.

documentcloud.adobe.com/link/review?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:b55e8fba-c7d3-46db-afef-ff92e6d19777

Shows the argos stores open/doing click and collect (i hope)