Fears For Tiers

[Bytheloch]

Thread #567 Still here, getting through each day one 2M step away at a time. November into December 2020 here we go...

I do get the argument re Christmas and whether it is worth it. I don't necessarily disagree - but I do worry about the sheer scale of the mental health crisis if it was "banned" as I think it's the hope that has kept a lot of people going. Many people are just at breaking point and "you can't see any other households at Christmas" might just be the proverbial straw I think.

That, and the fact that the compliance would be so incredibly low. It would also create a situation where previous rule-abiders became rule-breakers, and once you start to break the rules it's far easier to continue. Allowing it (maybe with a bunch of recommendations) may actually have a better outcome

StatisticallyChallenged
That's exactly how I feel. I desperately want some form of Christmas. I'm worried about my DMum.
I would lock down for January if we needed too. Most folk are skint in January anyway so not a massive affect on hospitality or shops. The nights start to get lighter. The weather tends to be more cold and crisp rather than wet so not so bad to be out.

I think it would be political suicide to cancel Christmas. We’re planning just to be at home instead of with family anyway, but I realise that’s not a good option for a lot of people. We were supposed to host last year but I was so ill - could it have been Covid? It was mid January before I could taste or smell anything! - we had to cancel, so it was just us then too.

I keep reading about the “five day amnesty” and how it will need to be “paid back” in terms of lockdown afterwards. What about Hogmanay?

I reckon Hogmanay is a dead duck.

No. I need the gym. And restaurants and cafes. Not prepared to sacrifice my life for a day.

And people will see their families at Christmas regardless of the rules. But not everyone has family, or wants to see them, not everyone is Christian. It’s grossly unfair to expect them to sacrifice a couple of months for one day.

Hogmanay is out the window, we'll all be with the guy on the telly raising a glass to those alone this New Year

Wouldbegood I do worry about those alone ar Christmas, I'd really hope people are able to welcome them into the house for Christmas, especially as the Churches won't be able to old Christmas dinner for people.

As I said elsewhere old people who rely on carers often go to family or friends for Christmas, if they aren't able to go, carers need to work.

We stay in with ALL THE CHEESE on Hogmanay, mainly because our cat gets so distressed by fireworks, but surely people who like to party won’t buy into that? Plus such a huge money-spinner for bars.

@Bikingbear but they’ve been alone all year? I don’t agree with the whole lockdown thing, but severe lockdown for all for two months at least isn’t worth it for one day in my view

And either the virus is a deadly killer, primed to leap on anyone in your house and kill them, or it’s not

Christmas is interesting because we didn't make exceptions for Diwali, Hanukkah.

Otoh, mass disobedience will happen if it is banned, it'll be a king John and Robin Hood situation and scot gov won't want to be that unpopular.

No skin in this game here - my parents are too terrified to go anywhere so we won't be seeing anyone.

@Bikingbear

StatisticallyChallenged That's exactly how I feel. I desperately want some form of Christmas. I'm worried about my DMum. I would lock down for January if we needed too. Most folk are skint in January anyway so not a massive affect on hospitality or shops. The nights start to get lighter. The weather tends to be more cold and crisp rather than wet so not so bad to be out.

You're right about spending in January. It could be argued a lockdown isn't even necessary in that case.

I think mass disobedience is what we'd have- it would break the remaining compliance which seems to be hanging by a thread as it is. The "I'm not doing what they tell me" mentality is hard to remove once it's set in and let's face it the police have no way of actually policing our lockdown rules.

Well the thing about other religions not getting relaxation is a bit of a moot point.

Christmas is more cultural rather than specifically religious, its what keeps many businesses afloat and noone would be stopping the minority religious groups from also taking the opportunity to meet with family.

Diwali is a 5 day thing and people are often working for most of it. I think about 0.5% of the UK population identify as Hindu. I don't think Hanuka has happened yet, I think it's closer to Christmas and I think it's 0.1%. Eid is bigger but it was in May and loads just celebrated with family anyway if they were minded to.

I agree it's just a day though and as we would be just the 4 of us anyway, it doesn't impact me anyway. Student DS will be coming home regardless.

But then I'm currently seething in Stirlingshire.

Did anyone see the bonkers airport rules?

@WaxOnFeckOff yes the airport rules are hilarious- unless you happen to make a living through the aviation or travel industry. Presumably Scotland could stop travel - as they have done in England - which would make it more possible for people to claim refunds, instead your holiday still stands, but you're not allowed to go to the airport if you live in Edinburgh, but i think you can if you're in Tier 2 .

I did idly wonder if I - living in Edinburgh- was to walk or cycle to the airport would that be permissible, as I'm only exercising in my own Tier. It's 10 miles though, so unlikely to happen.

You are allowed to go if you just want to look at the planes rookie...

Or have a test - as testing centre there.
I did wonder if police will check reg numbers in the car parks - it's an easy way of finding out who's there long term and applying fines. NB I know police don't want to be involved in policing of this - and who can blame them - but that would be a non contact risk way for them to do it.

The thing about Christmas that makes it stand out from Eid and Diwali is it's a National and International holiday, many non-Christians in the UK acknowledge it too.
Easter is more important religiously than Christmas, but we were in complete lockdown, so no Easter services or, Holy Week.

Children have missed out on, Hallowe'en, Bonfire Night, and loads of other events.
Christmas also doubles as a mid winter festival, and this year more than most others people need that midwinter get together.

I can see why people are pinning hopes on Christmas this year especially. The psychological data on fraud says that people always start out with small deviations and build up!

@WouldBeGood

No. I need the gym. And restaurants and cafes. Not prepared to sacrifice my life for a day.

Same. My swimming pool being open again has been a huge boost to my mental health. If it ends up shut until Christmas I doubt I’m going to want my bloody Christmas dinner. I lost 2 stone over summer with anxiety and loss of appetite.

@anon444877

I can see why people are pinning hopes on Christmas this year especially. The psychological data on fraud says that people always start out with small deviations and build up!

This - it starts with small omissions to insurers and things like that. Similarly, I'd bet that a large proportion of lockdown rule breakers aren't of the "throwing a party for my mates cos fuck covid" variety, but are instead people seeing their closest family. But once you start...I saw my sister, might just see my bestie. Kid needs to see their bestie. Can't not see auntie June... suddenly interaction becomes much bigger

We'd be fine spending Christmas just the 4 of us if it wasn't for my mum. It's the first Christmas since her mum died, my dad is also dead and she's really struggling. I've seen her twice since March. She's got an eating disorder and recently stopped her antidepressants. Ds's school breaks up the week before Christmas and we're meant to be going to my inlaws who live in a big house in the country. Fil has just ordered enough turkey for at least 10 people. He's not exactly law obiding though, used to let dh drive his car on public roads as an 8 year old.

We've followed all the rules to this point, I've done immense harm to my mental health forcing myself to wear a mask despite finding it triggering. Got 3 hours sleep yesterday because I spent an hour and half in the stupid thing (for toddler gymnastics). My motivation is disappearing fast especially as I know so many people putting their own interpretation on the rules from my University professor relative repeatedly breaking local lockdown to go to Waitrose and friends having their entire extended family around complete with pictures on Facebook.

Dinosaur, that's it exactly people who've suffered losses really struggle at Christmas at the best of times and need the support of family around them.

Is your mum in your bubble, remember as a single adult she is entitled to a bubble. Big hugs x

We don't have any extended family we see so this lockdown is wasted on us. Fucking pissed off with it all. Eve3uf we did have family I'd happily firgo a big Xmas for the sake of getting down this virus and protecting peoples finances and business's.

It's an embarrassment we have to pander to people who can't do a small Xmas for once.