If you voted no in the independence referendum...

[HirplesWithHaggis]

...is Brexit changing your mind?

I've seen a number of people on social media (including MN) saying that they voted No in 2014 but would say Yes, or are starting to come round to the idea, in a second indyref because of Brexit. Sometimes it's because of the loss of freedom of movement, sometimes it's because Scotland's Remain vote has been completely ignored (see also Irish border issue), sometimes just the way our MPs are treated in Westminster.

Often it's reluctant, which I can fully understand. Have you changed your mind, are you swithering? Might you be persuaded?

For probably unnecessary disclosure, I voted Yes, and will do again. I am not a member of any political party/group. I'm just curious.

Of course it is. SNP campaigned on stopping Brexit and independence.
The Scottish conservatives explicitly campaigned on no to indyref saying that a vote for SNP was a vote for indyref, and a vote for them was a vote against.

I will be voting yes this time.

@WeeBitSleepy both really. I gad a range of reasons - kept my current MP, fine with a second referendum, and casting an anti-Brexit vote in a UK general election. Happy with result locally and in Scotland, not happy that we now have a Tory majority overall and worried what they will do.

Aaarrggghh had not gad - only spotted that one whilst post was sending!

Why was that other thread in Scotsnet deleted? The one about Westminster.

I don't know. I and other posters reported it. I said it was a political promotion. MNHQ came back and said they didn't think it was and they were leaving it up - their website, their call.

Another poster then said that they'd also reported it and another post the same and that the other one had been deleted. I can only assume they changed their mind on this one too and didn't want to be seen to be politically endorsing but I don't actually know the reasoning.

Posters giving their views is perfectly fine, linking to a political webpage with a view to recruitment crossed the line imo.

Voted SNP and of course they have (yet another) mandate for indyref2. As other person said the Tories campaigned on no to indyref2 (as did LDs and Labour) and they still won / gained / both

No, I voted snp as a tactical vote against labour. Not because I want independence

Of course it’s a mandate. It was specifically in their manifesto. A vote for the SNP doesn’t mean a vote for independence, but it has provided a(nother) mandate for a referendum.

Everyone is free to vote yes or no, or not vote at all. I don’t understand the resistance to having the vote in the first place.

I'm desperate for independence but know the vote will be close. I'm still nervous that no might win again.

I think no voters don't want another indyref because they think yes will win this time.

There were the lies that Better Together used last time which have been exposed; the material changes of both Brexit and the disrespect shown to our representatives in WM (what happened to 'lead us don't leave us'!); as well as this week's rejection of the Tories (again) (and all the other parties except SNP who campaigned on stop Brexit and yes to indyref2) by Scottish voters; all mean that the only democratic thing to do is have indyref2.

If you don't want independence just campaign for no and vote no. Don't stop the vote though. Calling it divisive is daft after all this. It's absolutely necessary now for Scotland. Bring it on.

You can't compare BJ saying he has a mandate with NS saying the same. The country voted to leave the EU. Scotland did not vote to leave the UK.

I dont want another referendum because its divisive, damaging and win or lose everyone ends up bitter and twisted because the vote is so close.

If it was looking like 70% Then I'd say crack on even though I think it's putting the lunatics in charge of the asylum. I'd respect the vote, I'm used to not being on the winning side of most elections.

How is this any less divisive than Brexit? Loads of SNP people are banging on about Europe just cos Nicola told them to.

The vote will end up happening, if it's remain this time then they'll keep going and driving the country into the ground until they get what they want. I'll hopefully be dead by then. Scexit will be a nightmare the like of which will make Brexit seem like a walk in the park.

What we need is a strong Labour party to be formed to give people a proper choice in elections.

Yep, let's leave a union that is handing back powers to attempt to join one that is taking them away.

All politicians lie, you think sturgeon doesnt? You'd better hope she was very careful covering her tracks about bully boy sleazy sleekit Salmond.

Thanks @WaxOnFeckOff for the explanation of the thread deletion.

I wholeheartedly agree that what we need is a stronger Labour party.

I agree with you WaxOnFecOff
I listened to two interviews with leaders on woman’s hour; jo Swinson and Nicola Sturgeon. Wow! What a difference: Jo Swinson was (quite rightly) really had to defend her policies and views while I felt Nicola Sturgeon got quite an easy ride.

Im also fed up of funding rich EU children at our universities taking away places for our kids. My dd boyfriend is an EU student and he was the only student at his (comprehensive equivalent school) who has ever applied through UCAS and to a Scottish university. He joined his ‘language’ society in 1st year and it was all full of privately educated very privileged rich kids. His exams to get a place here were largely internally marked too(?!)
I don’t see the EU as this promised land the SNP are making out. My dd boyfriend’s country has no equivalent of NHS but private healthcare, high unemployment (part-time work is like hens teeth), his parents are teachers and don’t really have a say in where they can be posted and don’t get me started on the country’s track record on animal welfare rights. My Dh business (high skilled sector) employes an Italian National who said Europe is dying and that’s why she and her husband are working over here.

My gut feel is that the EU is not going to continue in it's current form anyway. I don't think it's sustainable and I don't think ultimately that it would make sense to rejoin if any future independent Scotland (or indeed the UK) met the criteria and reached the top of the queue. As I say, gut feel, before someone comes and starts asking for the stats...

I didn't vote to leave the EU but i accept that most people did and that's democracy. My personal view is that a just over 50% result is not good enough when we are talking about implications of this magnitude that result in a massive change to the status quo.

I'm happy to move to a fairer society and i'm also happy to pay more tax to achieve that Scotland has tax raising powers but really haven't gone far enough. The SNP are sending out an idea of utopia a bit like the Labour "free stuff" idea, but the reality is that people will need to pay significantly more in order to support that. Quite a lot of folk think it should all be free and come from "government" money and that's all free . I would say that we should be educating our children better about these matters but we all know how education is going, bit of indoctrination seems to be easy enough, but don't educate them to think for themselves as then where would the SNP be?

Seeing a few comments asking why we would leave one union to join another one. Here's why Part 1:

Seeing a few comments asking why we would leave one union to join another one. Here's why Part 2:

For anyone concerned about the difficulty of leaving the UK and comparing it to Brexit, they are not the same thing. Notwithstanding the fact that Westminster took more than 3 years and multiple scalps to decide what it wanted, this is the 1st time that anyone has left the EU. Scotland will be the 52nd (52nd!!) country to take the established route to independence and regain power from the UK:

First of all, you can't compare Scotland leaving the UK with any of these other countries (i think including some from the 1700s is really clutching at straws), none of them as as intrinsically tied together in the same way. It is much closer to compare the exit from GB to the GB one from the EU.

And can you tell me precisely why Scotland should have a greater representation at the GB government than their population gives them? It's not based on land mass...SNP are already disproportionately represented given how many have voted for them and perhaps their failure to make any impact is their problem...

The GB government is handing powers to Holyrood, albeit not at the pace that SNP would like, but it is happening. The EU are only ever going to go the other way, that suits some people but doesn't make sense in the SNP narrative.

What's the saying? There are lies, damn lies and statistics? It's easy enough to make out power point slides saying anything you want and spin the figures to suit. The nazis more or less invented this and used it to great effect and just about every political party or entity that wants to exert influence have done so since.

Wax your comments defy belief.

Can't compare Scotland leaving British rule to any other country that has escaped British rule? Of course we can. It's literally the same thing.

The EU's control over Scotland's ability to govern itself (like any other normal independent country in the EU) would be a tiny fraction of WM's control. And for things that Scotland actually wants the agreed rules on, like workers' protections and food quality/protected branding etc. (Also note: power devolved is power retained. Why not just take our rules and laws from our own elected government and cut out the ermine-lined middlemen who despise our own representatives and treat them with such contempt?)

And where did Nazis come from in all this? You're skating very close to calling independence supporters (note: not all SNP) like Nazis!?!

I can't understand your absolute and utter unionism at all.

Oh yes. Scotland representation and numbers/land mass or something. Scotland is its own country. It's not a region or a shire. England too (well maybe England and Wales). They should be independent and not have to compete in government with a neighbour who has many many more people. Democratic deficit = case for independence!

Wax as someone who has studied the Holocaust in Israel, I am in total disbelief at what you've written.
It is completely normal for a country to be governed by its own government. Even if Scotland returned all labour seats, there would still be a Tory government. This is not normal and doesn't exist anywhere else on the planet as far as I'm aware.
Please, the SNP were the first to accept refugees in UK and are very inclusive of minorities and encourage immigration. Some of the other comments on this thread have been worrying also ( another user saying she didn't like young people from other countries attending our universities). Very Trumpesque. 😢

Voted no first time, and will vote no again.

@WaxOnFeckOff - you obviously have very little understanding of the EU. It’s a super national organisation where small nations have a disproportionately large influence. It’s also the world’s largest and wealthiest trading bloc.

A great many countries have Gained independence Uk. Their economies were often closely integrated but now are more longer (eg Ireland).

The SNP won a resounding victory at the election. Clearly a mandate for their manifesto the first of which was indyref2