If you voted no in the independence referendum...

[HirplesWithHaggis]

...is Brexit changing your mind?

I've seen a number of people on social media (including MN) saying that they voted No in 2014 but would say Yes, or are starting to come round to the idea, in a second indyref because of Brexit. Sometimes it's because of the loss of freedom of movement, sometimes it's because Scotland's Remain vote has been completely ignored (see also Irish border issue), sometimes just the way our MPs are treated in Westminster.

Often it's reluctant, which I can fully understand. Have you changed your mind, are you swithering? Might you be persuaded?

For probably unnecessary disclosure, I voted Yes, and will do again. I am not a member of any political party/group. I'm just curious.

Nyx it was definitely mentioned upthread about age. And as I said it's only been a yes voter who has mentioned that in conversation with me. Just because you've had one experience doesn't mean others will have identical. Surely that's part of the point of conversing about these things?

Well Owl, so you're younger voters who are strong No voters. Can you tell me why you think Scotland should stay in the UK? What benefits does Scotland get from being in the Union that we would not have if independent?

The only previous argument that I could see was the fact that rUK would be in the EU and an independent Scotland would have initially been out (although I have always maintained that this would have been a very temporary state of affairs) but now that argument - the 'status quo is better' argument - is completely out of the window.

If you were a remain voter, how has this looming no-deal Brexit not changed your mind?

Good questions and I would be interested in the answers from no voters of all ages

The no voters are heavily weighted towards the elderly though. The hostility to no will diminish as time goes on.

My mum (80) voted no. The day after the Brexit result came in she said to me she had been wrong. She's a definite Yes now.

Good to hear. I think my 86 yo mum might change her vote too.

My (now) 82 year old dad didn't need to change his vote

Moved to Yes over a decade ago.

Only challenge for him is that he wants to see independence before he dies .....but his aunt in Denmark lived to 102 (his mum had died at 89 but had had a much tougher life in South Africa).

I voted no. If you think Brexit has been tough wait to see what happens if Scotland votes for independence. It will be horrendus and much tougher than the Brexit situation. However much I would vote no I'm in despair we have someone like Boris as the PM!

Scexit will be a nightmare I hope not to have to deal with.

Could not vote as was South of the Border. HAd I been able to I would have voted No.
Voted remain in Brexit.

My fear in not voting Yes was that given a pro independence vote winning, I envisaged the terms being offered by Westminster being very disadvantageous to Scotland. The Scottish negotiators coming back, tails between legs and Much Unhappiness from the Scottish public, leading to a rise in anti-English hate, and the Scottish economy plumetting.

Now, given the bourach that Westminster have made of it all, and I'm not restricting said bourach to the Tories by any means, I am less certain. In any case, given the precedent, if we dont like the way the vote goes we can always petition, and march for a second vote....

Voted no to Independence because it was clear at the time that the assumptions for wealth in Scotland were complete fantasy.
Voted No for Brexit and still hold a faint hope that we get another say.
With respect to another Independence vote, I would do as I did last time, that is, be open to the economic arguments, then make a decision with my head, no matter what my heart tells me.
Way too much emotion right now, we Scots are supposed to be canny, time to prove that we really are not Mel Gibson’s children.

Voted no, and will do so again. No answers on what it will cost and how it is going to be paid for, other than by the taxpayers.

Voted no and would definitely vote no again. There is absolutely no economic benefit to Scotland becoming independent and if you thought Tory austerity was bad, it would be ten times worse in an independent Scotland.

In answer to a question above about why Scotland is better off in the UK, here are three:

• Scotland trades more with the rest of the UK than with the rest of the world (£48bn trade with rest of UK Vs £15bn to Europe and £17bn to rest of world) (Scot Govt figs)
• We cannot raise enough from our taxes to cover our public spending (roads, hospitals, schools etc) and this gap is plugged by Westminster to the tune of nearly £2000 per person in Scotland (Scot govt figs)
• There would be NO automatic re-entry to Europe as our deficit which is 7% is over twice the limit set by the EU for member states (3%). There is also a queue of existing countries trying to get into Europe who are ahead of us, so with that and the fact that Scotland isn't currently washing its own face financially speaking, it could be decades before an independent Scotland gets into Europe, by which time Europe could possibly be a dead squibb anyhow.

So, until and unless our economy can bear it, there is absolutely no way an independent scotland could work. And that's before all the dramas with untangling 400 yrs of union vs the 40 with Europe that we are all bearing witness to now. Constant constitutional unrest is not good for our economy, for our long term planning, for business, for foreign investment etc. We need to settle down and get on with life post Brexit and if necessary, review the whole independence thing way off in the future.

Successful small nations: Denmark, Ireland, New Zealand.
I cannot for the life of me see why Scotland, with roughly the same size population as these, could not be equally successful.
Voted yes last time, will do so again.

The system is broken really, they only got 45% of the vote but the vast majority of seats. That's the same % as they got in the referendum, below where they were in 2015 and obviously up on 2017 but still well below what they need. People will have voted snp without wanting independence but I can't imagine that many will have not voted snp or green if they do.

Not a mandate for independence by any stretch.

Yes @WaxOnFeckOff I understand that, but just fear NS and team will be on the first sleeper down on Monday to make demands on Boris, swiftly moving to legal steps to enforce it, should he refuse. I’m genuinely fearful of what’s about to happen here. Probably for a new thread, another day.

I think that despite all the rhetoric, they will see this as the failure it actually is. Their position hasn't improved on where it was at the last referendum and worse than 2015 and that is including an element of tactical voting. I'm gutted that they aren't being challenged on that.

The system is broken really, they only got 45% of the vote but the vast majority of seats

I agree. Westminster really needs to change to proportional representation rather than first past the post.

If Boris can say he has an overwhelming mandate to "get Brexit done" on 45%, why can't SNP ask for a referendum, when you can still vote no, on 45%. A lot of Tory votes were tactical too, as many people, even Labour supporters hate Corbyn.

Because its divisive and a waste of money.

If you think brexit was a shitstorm, scexit will be much worse.

I voted no at the last referendum and I’ll vote no again. I don’t think Scotland is in a position to go it alone. I love Scotland but snp is so fixated on independence that they are not making the steps they need to look after their people now.

No, no and no again. Will keep saying no til she takes the hint

Voted SNP and yes I support independence (was No in 2014).

@OOAOML genuine question, did you feel you were casting a vote for a second referendum yesterday, or voting in a UK general election?

NS now officially saying the SNP's landslide victory at the general election in Scotland is a 'mandate for indyref2'