General Election - June 8th

[TinfoilHattie]

Another vote.

Can totally understand why May has made this move and it is very interersting from a Scottish perspective. Less about Brexit, more about another independence referendum.

I am very torn on who to vote for. It was exceptionally close between SNP and Lib Dem here last time round so it will probably be Lib Dem, but if polls show more chance of the Conservatives or Labour getting the SNP MP out on his ear I'd vote for either of those too. (V unlikely that Labour would be in that position though). Wouldn't ever vote Green.

NoLottery, how will the outcome of either the Council elections or the General election affect Ruth Davidson's powers?

I don't think there will be extra power as such and for me it's not the number of seats or councils won or lost. I'll be looking at the %vote, as I am sure everyone else will, so as to gauge what support each party has. A lot of support for RD and less for NS might not make much difference in terms of bums on seats but will be a psychological victory. Actually a reduction in the SNP %age share of the vote is all I am looking for, at this point I don't care where it goes, unless it goes to the greens I suppose.

This pro conservative opinion piece has the recent poll graphed against 2015 results - it shows a considerable further collapse in support for Labour north of the border (support has dropped to almost half of what it was in 2015).

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/strange-rebirth-scottish-conservatism/

hirples because Davidson will have more input into Tory policy if she's increasing her vote share significantly, also, if the Tory majority isn't as large as predicted in the UK overall, her MPs will be more important.

Hirples in an Indyref2 / Brexit climate I think it is a fairly safe bet that any Tory constituency in Scotland will get more than a fair hearing from a Tory Westminster Government. Ruth then gets to act as their joint spokesperson and as a conduit between Holyrood and the Scottish Office showing true devolution and co-operation in action.

In a Brexit climate I think it is fairly safe bet that any 'true devolution and co-operation' will be a thing of the past.

Nobody gets a fair hearing from a Tory Westminster Government - unless they are bankrolling that Tory Westminster Government somehow.

Or voting for them in large numbers

nyx with the SNP cooperation with Westminster is non-existent anyway. Their sole aim is to make Westminster look like at best they don't care about and at worse want to hurt Scotland.

I posted a link upthread about how the figures around Scotland remaining in the single market don't add up. On a basic level -assuming the rUK ends up paying tariffs to trade in the EU - those tariffs would apply to trade between Scotland and rUK too -and rUK is its largest trading partner...
And that isn't even taking into account how workable it would be anyway. To put it bluntly -it was a draft request.

There is no sensible reason for anyone with Scotland's interests at heart to put that in as one of your requests...unless you want to be able to say look at nasty Westminster not listening to us again.

"There is no sensible reason for anyone with Scotland's interests at heart to put that in as one of your requests...unless you want to be able to say look at nasty Westminster not listening to us again."

preventing the loss of, what, 80,000 jobs and £2000 per head and shrink the Scottish economy by £8bn in a decade isn't a sensible reason?

nyx -where did those figures come from?
Brexit is happening - the UK is leaving the EU - leaving the single market.
If Scotland stayed in the single market - the trade with rUK would be subject to the same tariffs and restrictions as the rest of the EU.
And Scotland does 4x the trade with the UK than the EU.
Therefore using those figures staying in the single market would cost 320,000 jobs, £8000 a head and £32bn...
So what is in Scotland's best interest?

Independence from rUK is in Scotland's best interest. Brexit doesn't have to include Scotland. Brexit England/Wales wants free trade with Europe (and by extension iScotland) anyway.

Independence from the UK is most certainly not in Scotland's best interests.

I think there's some wishful thinking going on if people believe that a Conservative government with a 100+ majority will be influenced much by having 11 seats in Scotland.

If brexit UK is going to get free trade with the EU anyway (and thus iScotland if that ever happened) - why does Scotland need to stay in the single market? There is no sensible argument for it.
I agree with lass Independence is most definitely not in Scotland's best interest
But Scotland couldn't not go through Brexit now anyway ...even if we voted for independence tomorrow - no way could it all be organised in 2 yrs...the reality is the SNP don't even know which currency we would use. And if we could stay in the EU in the circumstances...if we even want to stay in the EU - so it is a pointless argument.
We should be concentrating on getting ourselves in the best possible position for Brexit ...and working with Westminster for the best deal of the whole UK - which includes Scotland.
NS talking about Indyref2 at this point in time just proves she really doesn't care about anything but independence - will not do what is in the best interest of Scotland - cut the crap -stop the political games and point scoring and cooperate...
Actually has anyone else noticed, since the polls showing the SNP was doing so badly, NS is trying to distance Indyref2 from the GE vote- apparently it doesn't need discussing as she doesn't need another mandate for Indyref2 -she already has on ...

Great post unlucky I totally agree - independence would be disastrous for a Scotland already going through Brexit (and pretty pointlessly destructive even if it wasn't).

NS is definitely trying to distance herself from independence which is somewhat ridiculous given how she's been aggressively pushing it for the last few weeks. She won't even lay out her 'next steps for progressing the will of the Scottish parliament' (not 'people' you'll notice) until after the election. She clearly knows independence is a vote loser and her only hope to minimise the damage is the hope that people hate the Tories more than indyref2, so I expect there'll be increasingly aggressive language towards the Tories for the next few weeks. We've already had an outright lie from Angus Robertson on pensions - losing the triple lock is NOT the same as a cut in pensions - in fact if there's one group that's done well recently it's pensioners!

It's quite funny though that other SNP members don't seem to be able to help themselves, like Alex Salmond and Tommy Shepard, who actually thinks the Greens should drop out the protect the SNP! I suppose it's not as if anyone's going to fall for the 'a vote for the SNP isn't a vote for independence' line anyway after the way they've behaved.

Losing the triple lock is not the same as a cut in pensions? How is it not? I was under the impression that's the only reason it would be done away with - in order to be able to cut pensions at some point. Why else?

I mean the pensions would be cut in real terms, at least.

Listening to the whole exchange, TM did dodge the question of the triple lock, but also made clear that pensions would rise. It seemed clear to me she just didn't want to tie her hands. Angus Robertson then cynically misrepresented this as meaning pensions would be cut. It's especially disingenuous given that pensions would be hammered in an independent Scotland.

"Forfar town centre was in lockdown yesterday after a "politically motivated anthrax threat".
A suspicious package was found with a message reading "SNP out - Tories in". Thanks to Police Scotland and others, the situation was contained and no-one was hurt.

This news comes a day after another suspicious package was delivered to SNP MP John Nicholson's office in Kirkintilloch (there is not yet word regarding any direct connection between the two incidents

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15245381.StaffstunneddaftersuspiciousspackagedelivereddtoSNPPMPssofficeinnKirkintilloch/

The Tories and the Unionists who spread the language of fear and "division" should draw in their rhetoric immediately before they end up (inadvertently or otherwise) inspiring an incident worse than these in which someone does get hurt.

Report here:

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/angus-mearns/413804/update-forfar-lockdown-was-due-to-politically-motivated-anthrax-threat-articleisfree/ "

. Not being as widely reported than if it had said 'Tories out SNP in. Can you imagine?

It's totally unacceptable Calyx, whoever the target is (although I think it would get the same level of coverage whoever the target was). I think it does go to show the level of hatred and division that has been stoked in Scotland recently, which is heartbreaking. To my mind though, the SNP have done more than their share in creating this situation, with their constant 'Tories evil'/'Westminster evil' rhetoric and forcing through another Indyref against the will of the people.

I don't think you can argue it both ways - you seem to be saying Scotland won't lose rUK trade because the UK will get a deal with the EU, and then saying Scotland is better out of the EU because of the economic consequences of Brexit Nyx

I know you are a diehard fan of Indy for gut voting reasons but that's not logical, you should stick to saying you don't care if independent Scotland is a bit worse off because you value independence, which is the truth of the matter.

*better off out of the UK that should say.

I have been terrified that Scotland would end up a more violent country because of the division caused by the referendum .

If this had happened the other way round you can guarantee that the nats would claim it was a setup to discredit them.

Spectator guide to tactical voting with the aim of ousting the SNP:

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/vote-save-union/#

I wonder if they'll revise this after local election results.