Second referendum part 2

[Gighasmokedhalibutisawesome]

Any appetite for a continuance or have I missed the new thread?
There was quite a heated squabble respectful exchange of views so I am sure there is more to be said......

Trixy Brexit was the majority (barely) vote in anon-binding, advisory only, referendum. It doesn't need to happen unless you're TMay I think. It was voted for as a result of lies in the media (reduce immigration, £350m for NHS and so on)

I need to go to bed soon, night all, thanks

4000 figure is ridiculous. You are missing a few zeros

*in a non-binding

4000 figure is ridiculous

I was making no comment on the number, other than it was greater than zero.

The market is shrinking massively with Brexit. An independent Scotland would more than likely get back into at least the single market after a while. I strongly doubt rUK would cut off all trade with Scotland.

What 'market' is shrinking massively with Brexit?

What 'market' are you referring to?

Markets will open up post Brexit as we will be free to do our own trade deals with the 150 plus other countries who aren't in the EU and have already said they are open for business, right across Asia, the Far East, South America, the Commonwealth.

And an independent Scotland may or may not get back into the 'single market' eventually. That same 'single market' that represents just £12bn worth of trade to Scotland as opposed to £50bn worth of trade with the UK. And what will it be doing while it is trying to get back into the 'single market' it sets so much store by? 'After a while' you say. What two years, five years, how long would Scotland be waiting to 'get back in' as you put it?

And you 'strongly doubt' (that old crystal ball gazing again) that the UK would cut off all trade with Scotland. How do you know how the UK would react post Brexit and post Scottish Independence? Once again, the UK market is far more important to Scotland than the Scottish market is to the UK.

Every single thing in your post is speculative. If you read back through this thread and what has been discussed today you will see hard facts and figures as to why it is in everyone's interest, despite the bluster and name calling for the UK and the EU to do a deal. The UK market is worth far more to the EU, than theirs is to us.

Nyx I don't believe they represent businesses that are of any great merit, that employ many people or do much business outside their local area.

"well referenced", don't make me laugh!! Is that all it takes to impress you, lots of links?!

Calyx the referendum may have been advisory, but the alternative may be civil unrest. I think the consequences of ignoring it could be potentially very serious.

"well referenced", don't make me laugh!! Is that all it takes to impress you, lots of links

I believe that when someone backs up what they say, with references, preferably to the original source, it lends a lot of merit to the piece, and enable people Tokyo to the source and critically evaluate how the data was presented.

Opinion pieces in the Express have very little merit if they are not referenced with the source of the information. Anyone can make stuff up...

We are one of them.

The EU do not seem that keen to do any deals with the UK at present. I am not the only one speculating in my posts. Nothing is certain any more, there is no status quo. I am as entitled to speculate as anyone.

We will be lraving if there is much more uncertainty.

Goodnight xxx

It's getting a bit repetitive that anything posted that's vaguely positive about independence ' has zero credibility'

Well give us some 'credibility' then. Other than banging on about self-governance, constant whinging about 'Westminster' and 'The Tories' and so on - I don't mean you personally, but that is all I hear from Scottish Nationalists. The arguments are so lame. You could even see it in the Scottish parliament today. All the credibility lies with the opposition regardless of party. Any objective observer could see that.

The rhetoric of the SNP has become hollow. It's overplayed, it's repetitive, it's based on blame and grievance, a constant refrain and it just doesn't cut the mustard any more and people are increasingly tired of hearing it.

If there was some real 'credibility' to your/their argument then support for Scottish Independence would be so much higher than it is. But patriotic fervour and desire for self-governance isn't enough. There has to be some meat on the bones of the argument and the SNP for all their slickness, don't have the wherewithal to provide it. That becomes more and more apparent every time one of them opens their mouth and people are starting to see through the charade.

I cannot express to you enough that this is not media hype.

On the one hand they're constantly whining and on the other they're slick. Make up your mind!

Goodnight from me too, past my bedtime. Thanks again all for the discussion

The EU do not seem that keen to do any deals with the UK at present

So the Germans want to stop selling us their cars - trade that is worth nearly 100bn per year to them, with the UK representing their 4th largest market?

The Dutch and French with whom we have a massive trade deficit, want to stop selling us their goods?

We buy £23bn p.a. more from the UK than they buy from us and you 'don't think they are very keen to do a deal?'

Not to mention the importance of the City of London to the EU?

Michel Barnier
EU Brexit Negotiator:
“Re the city of London - some very specific work has to be done in this area. There will be a special/specific relationship ... No aggressiveness, no revenge, no punishment”

Frans Timmermans
EU Commission Vice-President:
“Let’s listen to Hippocrates and do as little harm as possible. We don’t want to harm ourselves, and we don’t want to harm you”

On the one hand they're constantly whining and on the other they're slick. Make up your mind!

They are both. I don't need to 'make up my mind'.

They are slick in presentation and they are constantly 'whining'.

The two things aren't mutually exclusive - you only need to watch and listen to them to see they are experts at combining the two. But the slickness is wearing thin and the whining is becoming deafening.

We buy £23bn p.a. more from the UK

I mean of course the EU

It's getting late and I'm tired.

Nos Dda!

when have I ever linked to the express

Cherry picking data from credible sources does not make the conclusions credible.

It's a model that both wings and BfS both use to fool people who aren't capable of analysing the figures themselves. It's shameful.

Now come on - I don't care what side of the argument you are on - this is bloody funny!

Nos dda fontella. I am so pleased you are contributing. You are a credit to those who have defeated their zeal for division for rhe good of the futures of their people!!!

Go WALES!!! You are awesome!!!

Please god let scotland get it together soon

Go to bed you cider drinker you!

This is for you

Can also be used as a relaxation tape .....

I don't know if you remember your days when you were overcome with nationalistic zeal fontella.

In my experience the nats don't find anything which they don't agree with funny.

The response to tracy ullman was very telling.

I was told by my nat family members that they didn't watch it as it was going to make them angry.

I thought theresa may would have been disappointed that she didn't feature. I like her, but I would have loved to see someone do a rip off of her or Ruthie.

The nats take themselves more seriously than most on the whole, but many have less to lose.

It is so odd it is like they are beyond criticism or jokes.

Shit fonty I"d never make enough that way

They haven't done the wassail obvs because their harvest was rubbish