Second referendum part 2

[Gighasmokedhalibutisawesome]

Any appetite for a continuance or have I missed the new thread?
There was quite a heated squabble respectful exchange of views so I am sure there is more to be said......

How can you infer the will of the scottish people on independence from the brexit vote?

It was totally distorted by yes voters like mhairi black holding their nose and voting to remain hoping to trigger another referendum. Also hundreds of thousands more voted to remain part of the uk than did to remain part of the eu.

The greens are on a sticky wicket. I thought they had more morals and integrity than this, but i guess a politician is a politician whatever their party, not to be trusted.

If I was May I'd be calling a snap election - poor old Tom Watson - have you seen this plan for the hard left to keep control of the lab party after JC steps down? They'll be weighing the tory vote rather than counting it...

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/20/labour-in-battle-with-momentum-for-its-future-says-watson

The absence of an overwhelming majority on practically anything is really significant.

Based on recent events thr electorate will struggle/tire with the complexities of, or conflicting info on, the current political issues which all frankly boil down to economic pain and little consolation in the short to mid term. But it wont stop them voting on a shockingly uninformed basis.

Politics abhors a vacuum. We seem to be missing a compelling, soft Brexit, pro Union party middle ground with demonstrably increasing popular support. Oh, wait a minute.....

Does anyone know where we put the Labour Party? I am sure I saw it somewhere.........

Is it 6 wks notice for an election? That's only 5 wks from 29th march til 4th may - unless she's going to call for a snap election this week then I don't think TM is opting for that.

And another country divided - Le Pen and Macron neck and neck in France.

She can't win I don't think - their electoral system doesn't allow for it, and the two leading candidates go forward to the 2nd round and I assume the left/moderate conservatives will unite behind Macron in the 2nd round and see her off?

But the fact that Eurosceptics are such a huge political force in France, one of the founding nations of the EU, and even if they lose, will remain so, cannot be ignored.

www.politico.eu/article/le-pen-macron-polls-french-election-winner-melenchon-news-france/

Politics abhors a vacuum. We seem to be missing a compelling, soft Brexit, pro Union party middle ground with demonstrably increasing popular support. Oh, wait a minute.....

Agreed

Davidson did well to stop Andrew Marr interrupting - that's a good line 'the SNP is not Scotland' - make a good campaign sign!

NLWY
Ha! Perfect cross post.

Gighas believe we'll find the labour party under Corbyn's sandal :) Seriously, we need the lib dems, all the moderate labour MPs being crushed by JC and his cronies to form a new party, now. It's utterly clear that JC isn't going to resign until he's voted out by membership and now, worryingly, he's allowing hard left infiltration. What are they waiting for?

we'll find the Labour party under Corbyn's sandal

Seriously, we need the lib dems, all the moderate labour MPs being crushed by JC and his cronies to form a new party, now.

I really hope to see this, and soon. Not sure how ready/prepared they are if a snap election is called but I sincerely hope there is some sign that someone can fill that void gig mentioned. Cos if there's nothing there, the Brexit/independence battles will obfuscate the real damage both will do to the whole of the UK.

Does anyone know where we put the Labour Party? I am sure I saw it somewhere

Down the crack in the sofa?

Fay Gray, Fallon Allan, Hamble Campbell, Lavish McTavish?

Sorry Fontella don't respond obviously, but it is puzzling when I should be doing the hoovering.

Yy, Ruth Davidson is a good interviewee. She answers the questions without allowing herself to be cornered. I'm glad Scotland has her at the moment.

my DH made a good point about the guarantee for EU nationals Sturgeon made a big deal of in her speech - the EU hasn't offered British nationals any such guarantee either has it? (Unless we missed that). So Sturgeon is insisting Britain behaves in a 'moral' way without campaigning for the EU to give similar assurances?

Latin they're better than the names I had ( Fontella )

I think Davidson comes across well because she's not afraid to stand up against big Tory hitters who she disagrees with. I think she's been instrumental in the tories resurgence in Scotland because she doesn't epitomise the Tory of old that was so damaging to Scotland. Which is something I didn't think they'd every actually manage to do. Well, they haven't at WM but the SP has at least some varied influences which I think is a good thing. I'm not keen on her politics but I do think she's a decent politician.

I think NS is doing it because it's the right thing rather than thinking tit for tat politically

There is the thing about those EU nationals possibly voting for Scotland's independence as well (of course not all might, to avoid generalisation)

I think using people in this situation as bargaining chips would be very bad karma

the EU hasn't offered British nationals any such guarantee either has it?

No they have refused to talk about it until Article 50 is triggered.

but like you say Calyx, she's doing it because she wants those people to vote for her, and she's missed a trick by not demanding anything from the cuddly, fluffy oh so moral EU negotiators - I bet Brits living in the EU are just as worried as EU nationals living in the UK.

Not the Brits in that Spain video (Brits in Spain are expats not foreigners etc etc). I will link if anyone's not seen it and is interested

But yes I am sure some are worried and would like reassuring.

I'm starting to think Theresa May should call a snap general election for May 4th

I think a GE would be a good idea too. If she wins with a landslide, it makes her position stronger - but not only in terms of seeing it as a vote for Brexit - but it also makes her position amongst the Tory party stronger. I get the impression that she is a Brexiteer puppet at the moment. If she won an election convincingly, she would be more independent and we might see more moderate voices getting more airtime? At least that's my t(optimistic) thought.

The SNP might lose a few seats too, though only if the other parties work tactically. As an example, David Cameron's constituency might have gone to the Libdems if Labour hadn't stood in it and split the vote. The Unionist parties need to work together and work out who is most likely to win a given seat.

Isn't this all really bad for our mental health? I don't want Brexit, and I don't want Scotland to leave the Union. It's all out of our control and makes me really miserable.

yes you can't really argue that British nationals living in the EU shouldn't be given the same assurances as EU nationals living in the UK, otherwise that's just asymmetric. So in fact, what Sturgeon was asking for was the UK to constrain its negotiating position and not caring about protecting her own people's rights. Very odd.

It's six weeks notice for a GE someone said on another thread. And May 4th is in just under that, not looking like that is TMay's plan

it's possible she's waiting to see what happens in the local elections. Or perhaps May simply thinks that labour's electoral chances won't improve anytime JC is in charge so she can do it this time next year, there's no rush whilst the opposition looks in no danger at all of getting its act together.