Second referendum part 2

[Gighasmokedhalibutisawesome]

Any appetite for a continuance or have I missed the new thread?
There was quite a heated squabble respectful exchange of views so I am sure there is more to be said......

The will of Scotland was no Brexit so Greens

'The will of Scotland' wasn't no Brexit. I hate this kind of terminology that suggests that 'Scotland' in its entirety voted for no Brexit.

It wasn't a Scottish vote any more than it was a Welsh or English vote. It was a UK wide vote by individuals regardless of where on these islands they reside.

In Scotland turnout was lower than in Wales and England at 67% and in Glasgow for example it was just 56%.

Of those who voted in Scotland:

LEAVE polled 1,018, 322 votes and REMAIN polled 1,661,191.

Those million plus Scottish voters made a huge contribution to the overall UK majority of just over 1.2 million.

How can the votes of more than a million Scots to LEAVE simply be dismissed when talking about 'the will of Scotland'?

It was the will of the UK that counted in the EU referendum and Scottish LEAVE voters played a large part in that.

Okay the majority of those in Scotland who voted, voted for Brexit. I take your point of course Fontella.

Keanu, that's your view, fair enough, but my opinion is that being dismissive of the impact of Brexit to argue independence will be catastrophic demonstrates a certain level of cognitive dissonance on just how catastrophic Brexit could end up, simply to make a political argument. Both options are not palatable for me but I'm no more convinced by Brexit than I am independence & I'm waiting for some signs that Brexit won't be a farcical mess. David Davis' evidence to the select committee was the epitome of farce IMO so I'm not convinced we are currently in 'safe hands'. I want to see cross party/UK wide input & involvement in Brexit & I seriously doubt that's something the Brexit enthusiasts within the tories will allow. I genuinely feel stuck between a rock & a hard place but I'm waiting for signs of hope re Brexit. I'm just not hopeful that it'll come.

Dismissive, no. But i think after short term farce and mayhem there will be new arrangements in Europe anyway. The EU is and was changing.
Sorry if my attempt at humour led you astray there.
I believe Scotland leaving UK will be the more significant event long term.

Where you yes last time Plectrum?

Thanks Calyx!

What I love about this discussion is how, despite how high passions are running at times - it stays so civilised.

You Scots are awesome!

I've trawled my ancestry to see if there's any Scottish connection at all, but sadly none. I nearly married a Scottish bloke once though if that counts. A slight stumbling block was that his very Scottish surname rhymed exactly with my christian name - same spelling too, apart from first letter - don't want to out myself so think 'Curly Wurly' or 'Chicken Licken'.

It wasn't destined to be ....

Fontella laughing at chicken liken/curly wurly names!

I went out with a Donald MacDonald once in my youth

I think talking like I did there about 'Scotland's will' is one way the SNP have wound up those who were in the minority that voted leave. It's similar though to when no voters try to say that staying with the UK was the will of Scotland after the independence referendum. And that margin was quite little.

I'd rather not say how I voted last time - I find on these threads the minute you say if you voted yes or no, you then get a whole load of assumptions about your views so I'll not comment. I did the same at the time of the last vote so I'll stick with 'no comment' on that one.

Just place-marking for the moment.

Fontella I am now trying to puzzle out what your Scottish married name would have been!

Latin me too (hope you don't mind Fontella )

Fair enough.

Cards on the table:

I see on social media and on msm some "undecideds" who are frankly far from it.
I was also stung irl by a friend who wanted to use me as a debating tool to prove her "undecided" yes vote was right.

I am not interested in political point scoring but in genuinely sharing experience. Hence i am not on a news or political site but use MN pretty much as i would real life.

Fontella I am now trying to puzzle out what your Scottish married name would have been!

I'm keeping shtum!

My assumptions of you are now based on your humour blind spot and use of the term cognitive dissonance to describe my mental state..

I'll hold my hands up to the humour blind spot - Ive gone back over your posts & still don't get what the joke is, but I'm useless at that most times. The cognitive dissonance was not you per se but to the general point on Brexit being no big deal but independence catastrophic. I think both options are catastrophic so I'll wait & see which ends up least catastrophic & if indyref2 still on the table at that point, I'll weigh up the options then.

Might all be a bit of a moot point if TM calls that snap election & the SNP support crumbles as no one wants another bloody referendum.

Dismissive of EU exit i took to be perhaps a take on my trading union gone rogue.

Have a good one. X

I would be all for Scottish Independence if there was a big majority for it. Likewise I wouldn't feel so anxious about Brexit if there had been a big majority for it.

What I hate about all of this is how split everywhere is. Scotland - polls on the Independence issue always around 50% (by that I mean it's 50 something percent, versus 40 something percent), Northern Ireland recent elections - 50/50 now between Unionists and Nationalists, rUK torn over Brexit - again, very close to 50/50 all the time.

So in all these arenas you are disenfranchising half of your people. If you look at the Independence debate in Quebec in the 90s, with 4.7 million voting, the 2nd referendum in 1995, had them voting to remain in Canada 50.58% to stay and 49.42% to leave. That's half a friggin' percent!

Canada would be a very different country today if just a few thousand more people had voted the other way, or not voted at all.

I realise that's democracy in action, but it's still scary how such a small number of people can have such an enormous effect.

If an overwhelming majority voted for something - then it's job done and no arguments.

I am at the age when every time i look at the word rogue i think I've missed a letter..

Tbh is any one fooled by the technique of generalising and then saying to the poster who appeared to embody the spirit of the generalisation in question on but i was not referring to you??

I see it on here. It must be on political blogging 101.

Inspired by general reading on the internet a safer refers to noone in particular..😉

I just don't say rogue, it's easier. As for roguish, so help me..

. Meant to write " this in no way refers to any poster on this thread.."

Roguish, Poguish?

I'm the same with rogue. It already looks totally wrong to me then I try rouge and think 'oh yes. It's rogue' 😅

Fontella yes it's difficult with the numbers around half and half.

Sky News says A50 will be triggered by TMay on 29 March