Second referendum part 2

[Gighasmokedhalibutisawesome]

Any appetite for a continuance or have I missed the new thread?
There was quite a heated squabble respectful exchange of views so I am sure there is more to be said......

Ruth Davidson on the Andrew Marr show this morning:

'The SNP is not Scotland'

Fontella I am so pleased you are joining in with the discussion. Your posts are really valuable. I am also impressed with your story and with how you feel about the nationalism in scotland (you told me about events in your past) It realy does give me some hope.

I really like Ruth Davidson. She talks a lot of sense.

Thanks gruff

On one of the other threads, one of the Scottish contributors wrote how she was a fervent nationalist in her teens and now she's a middle aged remainer.

That was me - only in Wales rather than Scotland. I look back at that person and wonder who she was?!

I also read a comment on youtube this morning. Read the comment by GamingTutor under this video ...

I've got to go out to Morrison's to do the weekly shop - but I'll be back later!

She is great She didn't take any shit off of him.

I think it's really common for someone's political views to change as they get older. Virtually very one I knew was extremely left wing in uni, but as we approach middle age most of us are fairly central now.

I was totally different 20 years ago, quite naive in a lot of ways, but as you live life your opinions tend to change a bit.

My deleted comment wasn't anything rude by the way, just an aside and then I thought better of it.

I didn't think it would have been Keanu

Neither did I keanu, I just saw that a comment had been deleted and people were talking about being abusive so I put 2 and 2 together and made 666

Please accept my apologies as I have not seen you post anything other than reasonable debate.

Anyone see this?

It is fascinating to think the future of a 300 year old union and the lives of over 60 million people, hinges on the votes of 6 Scottish Greens?

If they don't vote with the SNP then Indyref 2 dies a death on Wednesday.

This guy (Patrick Harvie) absolutely squirming, but not coming up with any coherent argument ....

I have to admit that interviewer's style irritates me a bit (he never really lets anyone finish), but he's absolutely right - the Green's were elected with a manifesto that said they'd only support another referendum if there was a clear desire from the people for one, and the opposite is the case. The power they hold at Holyrood is because of the manifesto they presented to the public during their election, so it's a bit rich to try and argue that they're going to go back on it now because that's what their members decided at their conference.

Will this be their libdem moment?

Did you also see Alex salmond claiming he never said it was a once in a generation vote? Does he think we button up the back? How can anyone trust a single word that man says?

The mental gymnastics of the nats to excuse it has been quite something to behold.

The thing is that all the greens have to do is abstain. The vote will still be passed and they'll retain their integrity.

They won't though as the party political advantage they have from the snp members giving their second vote to the greens would disappear.

The will of Scotland was no Brexit so Greens are true to their manifesto to debate and decide to ask for a S30 order following the Brexit vote.

My blood pressure is up just watching that interviewer. He wouldn't let Patrick Harvie answer he just kept repeating and repeating over Patrick speaking.

I see you've been talking about this on the other thread, but I'm starting to think Theresa May should call a snap general election for May 4th.

We are in uncertain times anyway and at least this would bring some certainty to proceedings. If the Conservatives win a landslide then she knows she's got the grass roots support out there to forge on with Brexit and if they don't then she knows she's got to moderate when it comes to the Brexit negotiations. It would also provide a barometer to political feeling in Scotland. If the SNP come back with 56 MPs, or even more ... then we know the score.

Or is that completely ridiculous? Don't be afraid to say, because I honestly don't know.

I agree with that fontella - a snap election would bring some clarity to proceedings in more ways than one. I'm not sure she'll go for it though.

I believe SNP would under 1st past the post be back in force. They do a good job of being visible and voluble. Labour are a busted flush. Conservatives getting a bounce from despair at referenda from a portion of the electorate. A other portion are enthused by democratic flowering . Meanwhile the country outside political debate looks as it ever did. Mostly post industrial where i am sitting.

We could do with a cross borders post industrial areas party triangulating between Wales, central Scotland and Northern England. This used to be the Labour party until Identity politics and Palestine took over..

Not ridiculous Fontella in my opinion. It would be a brave move on TMay's part and may happen but I don't think she would want to do that just now. Could be wrong of course.

Interesting times!

You for independence Plectrum?

I think your post is all true Keanu.

See the yessers want it. SNP phalanx disguises division within Scotland.

Was talking about a bunch of yes voting teenagers who all agreed it was too soon to have another referendum. Now on election day i see a lot of them still voting SNP. Because you don't vote in an MP on one issue.

I'm open minded keanu - I'm on the fence. I think Brexit is the biggest fuck up in a generation & I'm watching what is happening to gauge how that unfolds & the impact it'll have. So my vote, if indyref2 happens, depends very much on what happens with Brexit.

I agree with that fontella - a snap election would bring some clarity to proceedings in more ways than one. I'm not sure she'll go for it though.

If I was her I would. And I'd call it for May 4th as well. Why hang about? She's being attacked on all sides - including ex prime ministers like Major and Blair, the right telling her she's not 'hard' enough, while the rest saying she's too 'hard'. She's also got the issue that both she and most many of her party campaigned to REMAIN but are now being asked to spearhead the UK's exit.

Also no Conservative voter, voted for them with her as leader. I suspect most of them vastly prefer her to her predecessor though, but that is only an assumption based upon what I've read online in terms of 'opinion' about her, and seen of her myself.

I'd chance it if I were her. What has she got to lose? She's got a bloody awful job at the moment with factions fighting all around and at least, if she did get back in with a big majority, it would send a clear message to her opponents, and if she didn't, then it would send a moderating message to the 'hard-line' Brexiteers.

Myself, I don't understand why anyone would want to be a politician. If they offered me a million pound a week to be PM I'd tell them to shove it!

I think Scotland breaking ranks with the Union is far bigger than opting out of a 40 year membership of trade association gone rogue. Not to say it won't cause an economic shock plenty of trouble but i believe splitting the landmass of great Britain will have an impact magnitudes greater.