Second referendum part 2

[Gighasmokedhalibutisawesome]

Any appetite for a continuance or have I missed the new thread?
There was quite a heated squabble respectful exchange of views so I am sure there is more to be said......

Itsall: There will have to be a choice made by those wishing to remain British citizens if Scotland secedes

I will choose to go with rUK citizenship / tax paying for my own reasons. If i am unable to move then i will have had my UK status taken from me

Exactly. It's a point which Nats refuse even to consider. They are the ones bursting with Scottish pride, utterly devastated that they will lose EU citizenship but heaven forfend anyone should express an emotional attachment to being British.

I am sure that you don't wish to imply i am an emotional British nationalist. This would make anyone who knew me rotfl!

No, it's partly practical partly other personal issues i am not getting into here.
There has become a personal element with the SNP leaders Salmond and now Sturgeon , I will admit that emotion! But I have stood and listened irl to them speak and i am secure in my own assesment of the situation.

Best of luck.

For example I think a Scottish EU passport, would be far more useful than a rUK passport

Why ? If anything I would say quite the opposite- A British passport is recognisable. I've been in plenty of places where "Scotland" "Scottish" means nothing.

I think before the next referendum we should spend time simplifying the economic issue - whilst avoiding the inaccuracies of that cow blog - I got to the same point as lass, there is simplicity and the there is duplicity...

I notice Sturgeon patronised her own members in her conference speech: 'you've had all sorts of statistics thrown at you' - as if statistics were something to avoid! I'm sure her base can handle a few statistics.

And I mean simplify to the point that the SNP argue at 'Scotland strong' vs 'Scotland's is like Greecce', 'Scotland is using its insurance at the moment', 'Scotland has paid into RUK and now this policy is paying out richly' that kind of thing.

The other thing the SNP do is they say their sound bite, there is a bit of debate, it gets tricky, and they repeat their sound bite. Effective at getting your message across and avoiding debate.

The aggressive dischord on this thread has made me relieved, yet again, for Theresa May and her backbone.

I hated the lasted referendum, it was so divisive, and I'm just so pleased we won't be getting another one soon.

i hated the last referendum too - on the whole though these threads have been well behaved. Last time I couldn't even contribute to the mumsnet referendum threads as some of them really were vicious.

Anyway don't worry Add, according to Sturgeon her followers have to convince people like us so they're on a charm offensive this time round. They understand people that understand economics are terrified and anxious and are painting us all as people in need of care :)

Latest poll out this morning, taken after Nicola Sturgeon's announcement last week, has support for independence down to 44%. In line with other recent polls I think? It also seems only a small minority think there should be another refebfum before Brexit is finalised.

I imagine that Nicola's speech yesterday, her recent behaviour, and the continued inability of the SNP to answer the hard questions will not help their cause.

Did anyone see the car crash interview with Krishnan Guru-Murphy where he was asking what this 'too late to make a difference' thing meant as it was clear that Scotland's leaving the EU, at least for a time, regardless. There were no sensible answers, just the usual sound bites and defections.

NLWY, I was the same. I'm interested in politics and economics but not interested in abuse.

At the beginning of last week I thought Sturgeon had played her hand brilliantly, even though it wasn't what I wanted. But by the end of the week it was apparent that she'd been outdone.

The SNP just hadn't anticipated that May would say no. They thought she'd discuss it. But May knows we don't want a referendum and couldn't make a proper decision now.

NLWY, ATB Agree re abuse, I came here to try to understand more. The responsibility of voters at local and national elections and possible referenda has never been greater and the ramifications of Brexit and possible constitutional change/ break up of the UK will impact us, yes, but (far more greatly) our children and our childrens children.
Some posters have shown great restraint but others are intransigent and quite unnecessarily rude. I just dont see how that helps. Sad as it makes anyone with a contrary perspective or open view afraid to post.
I guess MN is not going to be the place for reasonable exchange of views.

I didn't see what keanu said. I am glad I didn't tbh

Teresa may has a huge set of balls and we need her.. . Conservative or not.

I totally agree with you gruffalo regarding TM. I've been a Labour voter all my life, voted No and Remain. My dad was made redundant when Ravenscraig closed and I was a student nurse when Maggie introduced the Poll Tax so I've never had any affinity to the Tory party. I will be voting for the conservative candidate at our local elections and I'm grateful that May has the balls to stand up to sturgeon.

My family left scotland in the thatcher years too and have been rejected on returning. Neither am I a traditional conservative voter.

I'm voting for them now.

I'm exactly the same and- Labour voter who has switched to Conservative because of this.

I'm still a Labour party member but the combination of Corbyn and Sturgeon means I'll be voting Conservative.

Strange times eh!!!

I'll be votingConservative for the first time too. I grew up in a council house in the central belt and the 1980s were hard and I have to say it feels strange that a Conservative prime minister is standing up for the majority of Scots.

Yes, but when your alternative is the snp? I think tm has got a difficult task, but I am hopeful.

I will never vote for SNP - their MPs are a bunch a chancers whose behaviour I find embarrassing.

I'm another one grew up hating Tories, but supported them in the last Scottish elections because they were the only ones committing to defending the Union. As I see it the SNP are worse; this isn't a case of disagreeable policies that can be reversed at a later date, their whole reason for existence is the destruction of my country (sounds dramatic, but it's true!).

It's a shame it took Kezia so long to realise that people were being divided along these lines, but now that they are firmly behind the UK too, I wonder if they'll pick up more support.

(And I agree that our MPs are embarrassing. They're not even pretending that they have any agenda but independence now.)

Yes count me in the converted Conservative camp - my parents would disown me if they knew though.

At the last General election I stuck to my guns and voted Lib Dem because our sitting MP was the only person with a hope of keeping SNP out. She almost did and I was gutted for her when she lost her seat. At the local elections we have a very strong independent candidate who I'll be voting for.

Labour are really struggling and although I think Kezia Dugdale comes across very well, I wouldn't vote for them. Especially not with Comrade Corbyn still around. Greens are a joke. Ruth Davidson - irrespective of whether you agree with her politics - is a strong, articulate woman who takes no shit and will defend what she believes in to the death. Her and Theresa May are two of a kind - strong women who are not to be messed with. Think Nippy Nikki has underestimated the pair of them.

I agree Tinfoil, Ruth Davidson is very impressive and seems very capable. She's desperately needed and doing a pretty good job of cutting through the SNP's spin. I see she's in the news this morning reminding everyone that another Referendum is against the will of the Scottish people - contrary to all the 'will of the Scottish parliament' talk from Nicola yesterday (subtle change in words there to side step the lack of public support).

I'm also very grateful to Theresa May for standing up to Nicola. I find myself in the strange position of rooting for the Tory prime minister over my own government, and wonder how we got to this point.

I'll be voting Scottish conservative for the first time. Odd times and all.