Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Second referendum part 2

999 replies

Gighasmokedhalibutisawesome · 16/03/2017 16:38

Any appetite for a continuance or have I missed the new thread?
There was quite a heated squabble respectful exchange of views so I am sure there is more to be said......

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
NoLotteryWinYet · 18/03/2017 07:23

I agree with that - I don't think the SNP can be appeased either, and the other problem I see is that Brown has no electoral platform.

I still think it's a good idea as an idea though. But the SNP will still complain about personal allowance control.

Anybody wondering if there was coordination between the auld Blair-Brown alliance for the populism fighting centre and the new powers for Scotland speech?

We do badly need a centre party - I agree with Shirley Williams about it being time for a new SDP it's clear JC isn't going before a GE.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 18/03/2017 08:14

I think Brown's idea is reasonable as a compromise. The thing that depresses me the most about this whole mess is that it's going to polarise Scots even more than we are already, when what we desparately need is to find a way to come back together and meet in the middle. Then we can start working together, knuckling down and actually solving the problems that we face, like a failing education system and a faltering economy.

NoLotteryWinYet · 18/03/2017 08:32

Yes - the SNP haven't convinced me they can govern, everything I see are cheap sound bites and populist grandstanding. If they had sensible policies and stopped blaming westmonster at every turn (I like this term because it highlights the slogan level they usually debate at), I might have more faith in eventual independence.

NoLotteryWinYet · 18/03/2017 08:33

In fact in fact every time they trot out a power they don't have as the cause of a policy failure they should be asked to fully justify why they didn't use every other available lever if they really believed in that end. Their end is independence, not fixing social issues.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 18/03/2017 08:40

I think Brown's idea is reasonable as a compromise

Except he does not have the power to grant it, it is just an idea. He didn't just last time as well, promised federalisation of the UK, that ended well...

No-one in Scotland will believe him this time.

QueenLaBeefah · 18/03/2017 08:45

He doesn't have the power to grant it so it is best ignored and Sturgeon to concentrate on the areas of her remit - education, police, farm payments etc.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 18/03/2017 08:47

Except he does not have the power to grant it, it is just an idea.

Bit like Sturgeon and her idea that Scotland will remain part of the EU or Scotland will definitely keep the £ then. She doesn't have the individual power to grant those either.

Nyx · 18/03/2017 09:25

Nope because Sturgeon wants independence at any cost. She is not interested in what is best for Scotland. Eck failed and Sturgeon wants the glory of being the leader who won our freedom.

  • TM wouldn't agree either. She has quite categorically refused any input from any of the devolved administrations at all. This thing that Brown is proposing is more or less what NS was asking for - power coming back to Scotland and us having a say in the negotiations. It is because of TM dismissing this out of hand that NS had to go to the referendum option.

Plus, Gordon Brown will argue and campaign for this - so what?? Who is he to campaign and argue for anything, who in the world would listen? I expect he might suggest a petition if his proposals aren't met, like he did after Smith Grin

Super Devo-max closer to federalism than ever before... Sounds great but the déjà-vu is overwhelming.

Plus, Gordon Brown (and indeed the labour party) don't have the power to organise a child's birthday party now, especially not in Scotland.

On other news I see the Nats, in a quite breathtaking act of hypocrisy, have decided to introduce the Nordic model for prostitution - 5 years after they blocked Rhoda Grant's bill.

Now I thoroughly approve of this but this but what prompted the volte face?

  • I didn't attend or watch the conference but I assume it was suggested, debated and voted on. The SNP are good at listening to their members and if members think it's a good policy they will go for it - get this - even if they didn't agree before Shock I expect many will disagree now since the SNP want to do it.
Calyx72 · 18/03/2017 09:27

Read another blog this morning which said what I was thinking about this

"...just for the moment, the news that Vowmeister General Gordy 'look at me' Broon is back on the scene and plans to work closely with crystal clear Kez the bewildered as saviours of the tired and worn out UK requires some comment.

...

surely to God there can be nobody left in Scotland who would even remotely believe such nonsense, following his previous interventions, and if there is can they please contact me because I own the Forth Bridge and would like to sell it to them cheap.

...

The British state must indeed be frightened, in fight or flight mode, turning the spin dial up to 'deploy maximum propaganda' mode wheeling him out again. No one will fall for it this time.

The infamous 'Vow' was bad enough but remember too, and this is unforgivable, this is the man who told Scots in 2014 that if they decided to go it alone access to NHS blood transfusion services would be in danger, and despicably, Scottish children with serious life threatening conditions would no longer be treated at the world renowned Great Ormond Street Children's Hospital, a statement which was angrily refuted within 24 hours by the hospitals chief executive.

Naw, no' this time Gordon. The people of Scotland don't fall for the same trick twice. Get back in your cushy retired Premier box."

Nyx · 18/03/2017 09:27

Maybe it's ex-labour members who are now in the SNP who suggested the prostitution thing Grin

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 18/03/2017 09:31

Nyx the SNP ordered a three line whip against a similar bill introduced as a private bill by a Labour msp 4 years ago.

The case for the Criminalisation of the Purchase of Sex Bill
www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/06/case-criminalisation-purchase-sex-bill

dailyrecord.co.uk
www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-accused-blocking-new-law-2008377.amp

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 18/03/2017 09:33

Maybe it's ex-labour members who are now in the SNP who suggested the prostitution thing

Your smiley face/ laughing face emoticon is rather tasteless in the context .

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 18/03/2017 09:34

^Now I thoroughly approve of this but this but what prompted the volte face?

  • I didn't attend or watch the conference but I assume it was suggested, debated and voted on.^

I think the "problem" the SNP has since 2014 is that they suddenly have thousands and thousands of engaged members, and I suspect that these members are rather more left leaning than the SNP would like to be?

Nyx · 18/03/2017 09:37

Sorry, how is it tasteless? I was grinning at the thought of the many ex-labour voters who now swell the SNP ranks.

Nyx · 18/03/2017 09:38

I really don't see listening to your members as a problem and I doubt they do either.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 18/03/2017 09:46

I really don't see listening to your members as a problem and I doubt they do either

Why did they not listen to the responses and evidence given to Rhoda Grant's consultation?

Why order a 3 line whip ? The situation now is the same.

Sniggering at this issue or the fact the SNP apparently has to rely on ex Labour voters before they have the decency to take this on board is tasteless.

Calyx72 · 18/03/2017 09:53

Come on I don't believe the issue was what Nyx smiled at, as she said it was labour voters moving to SNP

Nyx · 18/03/2017 09:53

I have just explained that I was not sniggering at this issue, thanks.

Calyx72 · 18/03/2017 09:54

The SNP have taken it on board which is good, right?

NoLotteryWinYet · 18/03/2017 09:54

I'm not sure why labour voters being duped into voting SNP is anything to shout about.

Calyx72 · 18/03/2017 10:00

I don't know about duped into voting? My ex Labour friend who is SNP felt betrayed by Labour and is passionate about Scottish independence, doesn't like Green or Libdem policies compared to SNP at present.

Nyx · 18/03/2017 10:01

How is it being duped when (1) obviously they like the manifesto or they wouldn't have joined, and (2) their voices are being heard, for example this very policy we're talking about.

Voting labour to be part of strong effective opposition to the Tories, now that would be being duped.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 18/03/2017 10:05

I have just explained that I was not sniggering at this issue, thanks

I saw your explanation- I still think it was a tasteless interjection given the subject matter.

I also fail to see why the SNP are only looking at this now because it is what their members want; or why you are not embarrassed it apparently takes former Labour voters for them to do so.

Or why you seen to have concerns about the SNP imposing a 3 line whip on a matter such as this.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 18/03/2017 10:06

The SNP have taken it on board which is good, right?

They could have done so 4 years ago.

Calyx72 · 18/03/2017 10:08

Yes they could have Lass. But they didn't and are doing it now.

Swipe left for the next trending thread