Second referendum part 2

[Gighasmokedhalibutisawesome]

Any appetite for a continuance or have I missed the new thread?
There was quite a heated squabble respectful exchange of views so I am sure there is more to be said......

I totally agree about the local elections. I am voting for our independent candidate. Every 1/4 he delivers a news letter outlining things he has done etc. No other party does that. The only time the other parties send stuff is when they want us to vote for them.

fontella either they are terribly, terribly stupid, or very cynical and believe the people voting for them are really stupid. 'Little Britain' - this is them saying it to make it sound like it's true..

If Top 6 world economy and huge EU net contributor is 'Little' Britain, what the hell does that make Scotland?

Do they not see hear the utter ludicrousness of what they are saying?

I've said this before, but when I see Nicola Sturgeon standing up on the podium with the Scottish flags behind her, all pomp and circumstance .. I'm sure she thinks she's the leader of some great world power.

It seems that sense of self-importance extends to her MPs too?

yes - the ullman sketches are funny because you sense that she's picked up something about how sturgeon sees herself. I've never come across an SNP rep with a sense of humour yet re self importance!

Yes, your average SNP supporter does seem rather thin skinned and po faced.

as a disenchanted labour voter (thanks to JC), it particularly grates that the lefties duped into voting SNP instead let them get away with blaming austerity on Westmonster when they have levers available to them.

My point was, the SNP should do this and lose barnett money if they are so keen to lose it through independence

I'll try again.

If Scotland raises taxes now it will have higher taxes than the UK and the same amount of money to spend.

An independent Scotland would have no Barnett and would keep all the money it raised so if it had higher taxes than rUK it would also have more money to spend.

Barnett isn't some generous gift from rUK to Scotland. Scotland gives all its revenue to WM who then hands some of it back via Barnett. In most years Scotland gives more in tax to WM than it gets back.

Your source for this assertion that any increase in taxes will be clawed back via Barnett please?

It sounds like nonsense.

Westmonster? That could be her new catchphrase

I'm guessing things like investing in wind/ocean renewables rather than slashing subsidies, spending rather less.on defence, investing in NHs and comprehensive welfare to cut down on costs.in the long term.
I am a supporter of green energy... as I understand the subsidies to onshore wind farms have been cut because they are now cheaper to build etc. There was a time when each job in the Wind power industry was being subsidised at a rate of £100,000+. It made sense at one point to subsidise eg pay £10 for something that would cost the supplier £9 to produce - a £1 profit to help recover the initial investment and loan interest etc -it makes less sense to pay the same £10 for something that now costs £1 to make...
And where are all the Wind farms going to be sited? We don't want to destroy landscapes that attract tourists - and the infrastructure needed to carry the energy produced to where it is needed. These Scottish people were hardly welcoming to the idea of pylons... www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/beauty-stirlingshire-countryside-blighted-pylons-9251011
Offshore is still expensive to construct and they still aren't sure about the impact on marine life ....I would suggest that we would be better to invest more in offshore when the technology comes down in price...as it will - let other countries take the hit first.
And there is the contradiction that our economy depends on gas and oil ...so we produce income from one source that reduces the dependence on something else we depend on...actually if WM said it was going to cover Scotland with wind farms I am sure that would be used against them - devaluing the oil/gas, ruining tourism etc etc.
NHS/welfare spending This is interesting - www.pressreader.com/uk/the-scotsman/20161001/281509340679931
I would love to think they are holding onto this extra money to cushion the impact of Brexit - but I suspect it is one of two things
It is their independence fund.
Or (maybe tinfoil hat time) their way of ensuring that they can continue to criticise the Tories and Westminster for austerity and cuts and make sure people only see their lives get worse...they would be so much better in an independent Scotland...
And yes they can't overspend but I control the budgets for a group and at this time of year I look at our contingency funds and whether we are likely to have a surplus or deficit. If I am looking at a reasonable surplus with adequate contingency I encourage spending some of it - investing in really- things we need whilst we are in a position to do so.
No reason why the Scottish government couldn't say we underspent X million last year so we are going to use half that money for investment in the future...say give NHS Scotland a windfall of half of it to get rid of a back log or refurbish hospital buildings or buy new equipment to increase efficiency of tests etc.
If you always have a surplus it makes whoever is 'giving' you the finance think you need less....

its ok, thanks - barnett is closer to an an insurance policy for Scotland to my mind, Scotland has paid in when oil revenues were higher, and it is now paying out.

The SNP should levy NHS/Education taxes in ways they can keep as I mentioned before, LBTT, VAT, Council Tax.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall at Green Party HQ. Are they frantically trying to work out whether voting for or against another referendum will damage the party least?

Do they abandon their morals and principles and vote against what is in their manifesto?

I fully expect them to vote in favour of another referendum, but I know several no voting greens that will be hugely pissed off.

unlucky Sturgeon as the 'administrator of austerity' has a nice ring to it. If they didn't spend the under-spend this year that'll be even more of an outrage.

A bit of a climb down from our First Minister, who now says she's willing to discuss alternative dates. Perhaps she didn't get the response she was hoping for to the '"carry on regardless" talk of yesterday, and realises that she has very little public support for her timetable?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39299305

Maybe she could have referred to the feed back from the biggest political listening except use in history carried out late last year to see if Scotland wanted another referendum? I wonder why we never got any feedback from that?

Exercise - not except use. (Stupid phone)

I totally agree about the local elections. I am voting for our independent candidate. Every 1/4 he delivers a news letter outlining things he has done etc

I think you must live near me.... if the candidate's first name is Duncan. Small world, maybe we know each other!! He was very helpful when we had a huge issue with Building Control too.

A bit of a climb down from our First Minister, who now says she's willing to discuss alternative dates. Perhaps she didn't get the response she was hoping for to the '"carry on regardless"

Possibly because the "bog off we don't want another referendum" petition is at 170,000 and the "bring it on" one has barely reached 30k - despite the frothing and fuming.

If it is another 2 yrs until another referendum perhaps she could find time to do her day job?

Interesting blair's new group to fight populism - hope they have the SNP in their sights...

I haven't signed the Indyref2 petition, I see it as pointless (and just like the anti ref2 one, horribly badly written) - But I have donated money to Scotref campaign- and so have a lot of people, over a third of a million pounds in 4 days. I would imagine that most people have pitched in small amounts, a pound, a fiver, a tenner. So that's a lot of people quietly donating a wee bit of their own cash.

Also, after the bitterness of the last 2 referenda (Indy and Brexit), I'm circumspect about sharing things on fb (a few likes and shares of favourable articles mainstream articles but no shares of anything inflammatory ). My extended family (No, Brexit, UKIP and Tory voting) have been sharing the most vile memes, ad hominem attacks on NS, and a lot of angry, nasty stuff. This time I'm choosing not to engage (or compete), with that... they won't be won over, but they might alienate a few "maybes" by their behaviour.

It might be a mistake to think that those making the most noise reflect the majority opinion (they might, we won't know until the actual vote)

This time I'm choosing not to engage (or compete), with that... they won't be won over, but they might alienate a few "maybes" by their behaviour.

So might those that have been saying some pretty vile stuff to those that are against independence.

Let's not pretend it's a one way Street or that those that are pro indi didn't do or say some pretty nasty things last time or starting to also do so this time too.

Tinfoil we must be very close as it is Duncan.

Piglet, I'm not pretending anything, I'm commenting on what I'm seeing in my own newsfeed now, this week amongst those whose political views I'm familiar with (because I talk to them in rl too).

Piglet, I'm not pretending anything, I'm commenting on what I'm seeing in my own newsfeed now, this week amongst those whose political views I'm familiar with (because I talk to them in rl too).

I understand that and I'm just saying that I have witnessed it from the other side too as have my family.

haven't signed the Indyref2 petition, I see it as pointless (and just like the anti ref2 one, horribly badly written)

The pro indy one is dreadful- that virtue signalling about not being racist.